1
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:05,250
[Music]

2
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:06,930
[Laughter]

3
00:00:13,210 --> 00:00:21,310
[Music]

4
00:00:27,410 --> 00:00:23,810
welcome back friends to another episode

5
00:00:30,050 --> 00:00:27,420
of liminal frames I'm Nathan and joined

6
00:00:33,049 --> 00:00:30,060
by my co-host and friend Darren EXO

7
00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:33,059
academian Darren it's been a crazy

8
00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:35,579
couple of weeks uh since we last had a

9
00:00:39,049 --> 00:00:36,840
chance to speak

10
00:00:40,970 --> 00:00:39,059
and

11
00:00:43,369 --> 00:00:40,980
I don't know about you but I've I've had

12
00:00:45,049 --> 00:00:43,379
moments of where I can't look away and

13
00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:45,059
the moments where I just needed to step

14
00:00:49,910 --> 00:00:48,600
away and take a break uh I know we're

15
00:00:52,190 --> 00:00:49,920
gonna get into some interesting things

16
00:00:55,310 --> 00:00:52,200
today but you know how has it been for

17
00:00:57,889 --> 00:00:55,320
you the last uh 14 days

18
00:01:01,189 --> 00:00:57,899
yeah I would concur with that assessment

19
00:01:03,650 --> 00:01:01,199
um you know it's uh like you say on the

20
00:01:05,750 --> 00:01:03,660
one hand there were as I've been hinting

21
00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:05,760
at on point of convergence and social

22
00:01:09,410 --> 00:01:07,680
media I feel like there's civilization

23
00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:09,420
changing things going on behind the

24
00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:12,060
scenes so that's not no small thing of

25
00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:15,540
course and um but yeah I think you have

26
00:01:22,070 --> 00:01:16,500
to

27
00:01:24,350 --> 00:01:22,080
going for walks in the morning you know

28
00:01:27,109 --> 00:01:24,360
just things that somatically ground your

29
00:01:28,550 --> 00:01:27,119
body meditation and whatnot because you

30
00:01:31,249 --> 00:01:28,560
kind of have to both take the biggest

31
00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:31,259
perspective you know to be able to

32
00:01:35,929 --> 00:01:34,680
manage to think about and and fit in the

33
00:01:38,450 --> 00:01:35,939
things that are going on right now on a

34
00:01:40,190 --> 00:01:38,460
grand scale but you also have to you

35
00:01:43,670 --> 00:01:40,200
know live day to day and find ways to

36
00:01:46,010 --> 00:01:43,680
show up as a embodied being in a healthy

37
00:01:49,069 --> 00:01:46,020
way so it's been an interesting exercise

38
00:01:51,889 --> 00:01:49,079
and the two of those for sure

39
00:01:53,090 --> 00:01:51,899
I was reflecting on when you and I first

40
00:01:55,969 --> 00:01:53,100
met

41
00:01:58,310 --> 00:01:55,979
over a year ago in a coffee shop and we

42
00:02:00,950 --> 00:01:58,320
were charting a course starting to think

43
00:02:03,230 --> 00:02:00,960
about what we might want to do

44
00:02:05,389 --> 00:02:03,240
with this show

45
00:02:08,089 --> 00:02:05,399
and of course looking at the tools that

46
00:02:11,510 --> 00:02:08,099
each of us had in in kind of talking

47
00:02:13,449 --> 00:02:11,520
about the phenomena the tools of our

48
00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:13,459
religious studies

49
00:02:20,229 --> 00:02:16,920
historical critical method going through

50
00:02:24,170 --> 00:02:20,239
all of that process of

51
00:02:28,729 --> 00:02:24,180
belief devotion analysis critique

52
00:02:33,290 --> 00:02:28,739
reflection and various stages throughout

53
00:02:34,910 --> 00:02:33,300
and when we started liminal frames

54
00:02:36,290 --> 00:02:34,920
you know I think it's pretty evident if

55
00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:36,300
you go back and listen to those earlier

56
00:02:39,710 --> 00:02:37,620
episodes

57
00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:39,720
we're working very hard to kind of give

58
00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:44,340
people a multi-faceted perspective to to

59
00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:46,680
give them ways to think about these

60
00:02:53,210 --> 00:02:50,000
issues from more than one vantage point

61
00:02:54,589 --> 00:02:53,220
and we're going to get into some of that

62
00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:54,599
today

63
00:03:01,430 --> 00:02:57,120
from the standpoint of

64
00:03:03,110 --> 00:03:01,440
that kind of of effort and work is

65
00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:03,120
really comfortable and was really

66
00:03:09,410 --> 00:03:06,239
comfortable for us to be able to talk in

67
00:03:10,490 --> 00:03:09,420
abstractions and traffic in the world of

68
00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:10,500
ideas

69
00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:14,220
but once things start to get more real

70
00:03:18,229 --> 00:03:17,280
quote unquote uh and more embodied if

71
00:03:21,949 --> 00:03:18,239
you will

72
00:03:23,449 --> 00:03:21,959
in our day-to-day the more we are

73
00:03:26,509 --> 00:03:23,459
confronted

74
00:03:29,570 --> 00:03:26,519
with this

75
00:03:31,850 --> 00:03:29,580
you know impending imposing thing that

76
00:03:34,490 --> 00:03:31,860
is happening and the less that we can

77
00:03:36,250 --> 00:03:34,500
comfortably hold it at arm's length and

78
00:03:38,990 --> 00:03:36,260
just sort of

79
00:03:41,390 --> 00:03:39,000
casually discuss it as if it's another

80
00:03:43,309 --> 00:03:41,400
thought exercise and I think that's a

81
00:03:46,190 --> 00:03:43,319
big part of what we want to get into on

82
00:03:49,550 --> 00:03:46,200
on this episode is is really how do we

83
00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:49,560
balance these things and and recognize

84
00:03:54,830 --> 00:03:52,440
that it that a big part of this isn't

85
00:03:56,750 --> 00:03:54,840
just abstraction okay there's some real

86
00:03:58,789 --> 00:03:56,760
stuff happening

87
00:04:01,369 --> 00:03:58,799
absolutely and it's interesting that we

88
00:04:03,649 --> 00:04:01,379
have reflected on our you know religious

89
00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:03,659
studies history and whatnot because I

90
00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:04,860
remember the same thing happening in

91
00:04:08,149 --> 00:04:06,840
those circles right on the one hand you

92
00:04:09,649 --> 00:04:08,159
had

93
00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:09,659
people in the churches that I was

94
00:04:13,490 --> 00:04:11,760
involved in who were you know very

95
00:04:15,710 --> 00:04:13,500
passionate about what they believed and

96
00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:15,720
they felt like it was really impacting

97
00:04:19,550 --> 00:04:17,340
the way they lived their lives they felt

98
00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:19,560
like they really had a sense of the

99
00:04:23,810 --> 00:04:22,139
overall architecture behind reality and

100
00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:23,820
that really did determine the way they

101
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:26,220
lived each day right and then we went

102
00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:28,560
into you know sort of religious

103
00:04:33,610 --> 00:04:32,040
um Theory right in Academia and then it

104
00:04:37,129 --> 00:04:33,620
becomes very much about like you say

105
00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:37,139
abstractions and a 30 000 foot View and

106
00:04:42,530 --> 00:04:39,600
historically critically you know parsing

107
00:04:46,010 --> 00:04:42,540
all of that and and basically

108
00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:46,020
um making it kind of inert in a way you

109
00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:49,740
know and that's also fun and

110
00:04:55,610 --> 00:04:52,560
entertaining and comfortable and

111
00:04:57,230 --> 00:04:55,620
um enlightening but yeah the the rubber

112
00:04:59,450 --> 00:04:57,240
hits the robe when you have to find a

113
00:05:01,730 --> 00:04:59,460
way to join those two when you recognize

114
00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:01,740
that ideally you want to be doing both

115
00:05:07,730 --> 00:05:05,460
you want to be able to parse and be uh

116
00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:07,740
thoughtful about the largest grand

117
00:05:11,629 --> 00:05:09,840
scheme of architecture but also think

118
00:05:14,450 --> 00:05:11,639
about how that changes the way you would

119
00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:14,460
live and I think that what's really been

120
00:05:17,330 --> 00:05:16,080
hitting on for me and I mentioned to

121
00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:17,340
this to you before we went on the Air

122
00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:18,540
Tonight

123
00:05:22,969 --> 00:05:21,000
is how that juxtaposition has been

124
00:05:24,890 --> 00:05:22,979
working itself out that I

125
00:05:27,950 --> 00:05:24,900
like you said last year we began with a

126
00:05:30,290 --> 00:05:27,960
much more you know comfortable uh way of

127
00:05:32,689 --> 00:05:30,300
just theoretically approaching this and

128
00:05:34,189 --> 00:05:32,699
and kind of like the the main task we

129
00:05:35,390 --> 00:05:34,199
had then was to make sure you mentioned

130
00:05:37,310 --> 00:05:35,400
all of the different elements of the

131
00:05:39,290 --> 00:05:37,320
phenomenon right and I feel like you

132
00:05:41,510 --> 00:05:39,300
have a broad enough perspective but

133
00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:41,520
what's hit home for me more now is to

134
00:05:46,249 --> 00:05:44,160
recognize that yes that's important but

135
00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:46,259
not to forget at the end of the day that

136
00:05:50,830 --> 00:05:48,900
this should ideally change how we live

137
00:05:53,870 --> 00:05:50,840
our lives that as we'll get into tonight

138
00:05:55,670 --> 00:05:53,880
religious history uh influencing how

139
00:05:59,090 --> 00:05:55,680
people live their lives is really the

140
00:06:02,510 --> 00:05:59,100
same thing as the phenomenon and so that

141
00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:02,520
is the real task we have in front of us

142
00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:05,880
one thing we talked about before we hit

143
00:06:11,689 --> 00:06:08,580
record as well was that

144
00:06:14,210 --> 00:06:11,699
a lot of the uh

145
00:06:16,790 --> 00:06:14,220
the the big picture of the the gleanings

146
00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:16,800
if you will the bottom line a lot of

147
00:06:24,110 --> 00:06:21,720
that is sort of in the uh many many

148
00:06:26,029 --> 00:06:24,120
accounts experiences that that if you've

149
00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:26,039
studied this for any length of time like

150
00:06:31,309 --> 00:06:28,800
it's kind of staring at you in the face

151
00:06:34,189 --> 00:06:31,319
and as you point out with the religious

152
00:06:38,330 --> 00:06:34,199
aspect of it as well you don't even need

153
00:06:40,969 --> 00:06:38,340
to look at your ufology per se to to see

154
00:06:44,809 --> 00:06:40,979
the kinds of things that that I think we

155
00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:44,819
are concluding uh or leaning toward in

156
00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:47,220
in what is going on and and for me

157
00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:49,020
that's actually one of the most profound

158
00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:52,560
aspects of it so it's not something

159
00:06:58,850 --> 00:06:54,780
that's just taking place in the 20th

160
00:07:01,129 --> 00:06:58,860
century or even recent history uh or

161
00:07:03,710 --> 00:07:01,139
even in sightings that have been

162
00:07:06,170 --> 00:07:03,720
conflated to be uh you know sort of

163
00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:06,180
airships or some other lights in the sky

164
00:07:11,809 --> 00:07:09,539
from centuries past but it's a phenomena

165
00:07:14,029 --> 00:07:11,819
that has occurred throughout human

166
00:07:17,330 --> 00:07:14,039
history and has been interpreted in

167
00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:17,340
different ways and much of the way that

168
00:07:22,430 --> 00:07:20,280
I if you look at kind of how the the

169
00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:22,440
thought leaders in this space have

170
00:07:26,689 --> 00:07:24,900
conversation about what's going on I

171
00:07:30,409 --> 00:07:26,699
kind of think well that's what was

172
00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:30,419
happening back in the times of uh the

173
00:07:33,770 --> 00:07:31,680
you know with the writers of the New

174
00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:33,780
Testament the writers of the of the

175
00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:35,039
Hebrew Bible I mean they're they're

176
00:07:38,689 --> 00:07:36,960
having they're having these thought

177
00:07:40,490 --> 00:07:38,699
conversations these philosophical

178
00:07:43,909 --> 00:07:40,500
philosophical kinds of debates about

179
00:07:47,150 --> 00:07:43,919
what it what it is trying to do the hard

180
00:07:51,770 --> 00:07:47,160
work of transcribing experience into

181
00:07:55,010 --> 00:07:51,780
words uh you know that that work is

182
00:07:56,870 --> 00:07:55,020
never done we're we're doing it now and

183
00:07:58,790 --> 00:07:56,880
we were doing it then and we for

184
00:08:00,710 --> 00:07:58,800
whatever reason in modernity we've kind

185
00:08:03,950 --> 00:08:00,720
of erected a wall between these two

186
00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:03,960
periods of time in a way and we we sort

187
00:08:07,129 --> 00:08:05,400
of said well that was weird and

188
00:08:09,710 --> 00:08:07,139
different than how they looked at the

189
00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:09,720
real at reality well we don't do that

190
00:08:13,850 --> 00:08:12,060
now we you know we work in in science

191
00:08:17,570 --> 00:08:13,860
and we don't we don't speak and that

192
00:08:20,570 --> 00:08:17,580
those kinds of metaphorical ways so you

193
00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:20,580
know kind of demolishing the wall and

194
00:08:26,029 --> 00:08:22,800
allowing what's happening what's being

195
00:08:28,670 --> 00:08:26,039
described what's being experienced to to

196
00:08:31,129 --> 00:08:28,680
hit you head on in the face and like a

197
00:08:33,769 --> 00:08:31,139
like a bucket of cold water like you

198
00:08:35,930 --> 00:08:33,779
cannot ignore this feeling like it is

199
00:08:40,250 --> 00:08:35,940
there it is not something just happening

200
00:08:41,810 --> 00:08:40,260
inside a philosophical exercise

201
00:08:43,909 --> 00:08:41,820
right I mean there's several things that

202
00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:43,919
come to mind as you as you go there I

203
00:08:48,710 --> 00:08:46,140
mean one is that

204
00:08:50,650 --> 00:08:48,720
I think part of what makes this

205
00:08:52,970 --> 00:08:50,660
particular topic

206
00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:52,980
convenient to talk about in a

207
00:08:56,990 --> 00:08:55,140
theoretical sense and sort of you know

208
00:09:00,290 --> 00:08:57,000
Bounty about these different

209
00:09:02,090 --> 00:09:00,300
Notions and hypotheses is that even the

210
00:09:03,769 --> 00:09:02,100
people who have experiences often it

211
00:09:05,090 --> 00:09:03,779
happens in kind of an alternate State of

212
00:09:07,490 --> 00:09:05,100
Consciousness or what they perceive as

213
00:09:09,230 --> 00:09:07,500
an alternate realm sometimes it'll

214
00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:09,240
they'll remember it as a dream but

215
00:09:13,130 --> 00:09:10,980
likely because they were taken in the

216
00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:13,140
middle of the night and

217
00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:15,540
sedated in some way whether it's you

218
00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:16,800
know chemical or some sort of

219
00:09:21,889 --> 00:09:19,260
Consciousness control and so even for

220
00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:21,899
them it seems like somehow separate

221
00:09:26,389 --> 00:09:24,600
distinct from the normal world right and

222
00:09:28,009 --> 00:09:26,399
then so a big part of their challenge is

223
00:09:29,930 --> 00:09:28,019
how do you reconcile those two

224
00:09:32,449 --> 00:09:29,940
especially when you start getting little

225
00:09:34,130 --> 00:09:32,459
hints there here and there that you

226
00:09:35,870 --> 00:09:34,140
cannot keep those comfortably separate

227
00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:35,880
whether it's something like you know

228
00:09:40,850 --> 00:09:38,820
seeing grass or or soil on the carpet

229
00:09:43,070 --> 00:09:40,860
because you realize you actually were

230
00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:43,080
outside last night and taking on a ship

231
00:09:46,130 --> 00:09:45,300
it wasn't just a dream right things like

232
00:09:49,550 --> 00:09:46,140
that

233
00:09:51,829 --> 00:09:49,560
and I was also thinking about how

234
00:09:53,570 --> 00:09:51,839
one of the things I really was hoping we

235
00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:53,580
would get into tonight is and we've done

236
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,440
this a few times on this show and that

237
00:09:59,930 --> 00:09:57,360
is like not make anyone comfortable like

238
00:10:02,509 --> 00:09:59,940
in in other words challenge both sides

239
00:10:04,430 --> 00:10:02,519
of the equation and so

240
00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:04,440
I think we need to so in the same way

241
00:10:08,810 --> 00:10:06,899
that we for instance would

242
00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:08,820
kind of really challenge some people who

243
00:10:13,130 --> 00:10:10,920
have a very simplistic notion of the

244
00:10:14,990 --> 00:10:13,140
phenomenon just slotting in completely

245
00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:15,000
with angels and demons like it's just a

246
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:17,519
traditional perspective nothing else to

247
00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:19,920
it you know there's no Nuance we would

248
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:22,080
question that but on the on the you know

249
00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:24,240
on the other side of this coin

250
00:10:27,769 --> 00:10:26,100
um we would also want to say to the

251
00:10:29,630 --> 00:10:27,779
people who interpret everything as

252
00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:29,640
allegorical and symbolic and the

253
00:10:34,370 --> 00:10:31,980
phenomenon is just a way of challenging

254
00:10:36,050 --> 00:10:34,380
us to be creative and think differently

255
00:10:38,329 --> 00:10:36,060
and that's all it really is and and

256
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:38,339
everything else is just sort of these

257
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:40,320
this this puppetry that's not really

258
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:42,000
real it's more about how it changes our

259
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:43,920
Consciousness I want to challenge that

260
00:10:49,009 --> 00:10:47,279
too and it's easy for people like you

261
00:10:50,569 --> 00:10:49,019
and I who are in kind of intellectual

262
00:10:53,269 --> 00:10:50,579
circles and have kind of been in those

263
00:10:55,069 --> 00:10:53,279
circles for a lot of Our Lives to to

264
00:10:57,470 --> 00:10:55,079
stay there right to sort of stay in that

265
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,480
sort of symbolic realm because you're

266
00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:00,480
able to dabble in it even go into it to

267
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:02,399
a grade degree but it not really change

268
00:11:05,569 --> 00:11:04,260
the way you live your life and not you

269
00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:05,579
don't really have to ask the people

270
00:11:09,170 --> 00:11:07,620
around you to change the way they live

271
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:09,180
their lives because of it right so it's

272
00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:11,700
comfortable it's convenient but I think

273
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:13,500
again one thing that's really hit home

274
00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:16,800
for me is that this phenomenon is asking

275
00:11:20,990 --> 00:11:19,140
for some sort of marriage between the

276
00:11:23,569 --> 00:11:21,000
two some sort of integration to happen

277
00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:23,579
so that's a big part of what my journey

278
00:11:27,290 --> 00:11:26,040
has been like recently and the last

279
00:11:29,449 --> 00:11:27,300
thing I'll say too

280
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:29,459
when you were talking about you know

281
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:30,720
approach history and whatnot I was

282
00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:35,810
you know a lot of Protestants for

283
00:11:39,470 --> 00:11:37,380
instance not even Catholics although

284
00:11:41,449 --> 00:11:39,480
they'll you know call on different

285
00:11:43,970 --> 00:11:41,459
Church fathers and whatnot and even

286
00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:43,980
different uh um you know collection of

287
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:45,660
books to be included in a Canon right

288
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:46,980
different for Catholics leaders for

289
00:11:50,930 --> 00:11:49,260
Protestants but they still look to the

290
00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:50,940
Past right and these people these Church

291
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,640
fathers these like you know hero figures

292
00:11:58,250 --> 00:11:56,160
to shape the future right we have this

293
00:12:00,590 --> 00:11:58,260
tendency we've talked about the show on

294
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:00,600
the show about this I think early on in

295
00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:03,260
the first couple episodes how we tend to

296
00:12:08,449 --> 00:12:06,899
mythologize these ancient humans and

297
00:12:09,949 --> 00:12:08,459
make them something more than we are

298
00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:09,959
right

299
00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:11,880
um and so you have like you know the

300
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:13,800
Council of Trent the Council of nicaea

301
00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:16,380
these these times in history where major

302
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:18,540
decisions were made about what will be

303
00:12:22,490 --> 00:12:20,640
considered the word of God right and and

304
00:12:25,009 --> 00:12:22,500
would therefore dictate how people

305
00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:25,019
should live their lives and the same way

306
00:12:29,329 --> 00:12:27,300
in ufology I feel like we do that with

307
00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:29,339
John Keel and Jacques valet you know we

308
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:31,560
say let's look back at these and I see

309
00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:33,540
some people right who just like act like

310
00:12:38,750 --> 00:12:36,360
these these guys you know are like the

311
00:12:40,130 --> 00:12:38,760
the youthological fathers and we should

312
00:12:41,810 --> 00:12:40,140
parse everything that's happening now

313
00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:41,820
through their great books and they are

314
00:12:45,769 --> 00:12:44,100
great books right but I think we

315
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,779
shouldn't stop doing the work I think

316
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:48,240
when we come across data points that

317
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,920
challenge some of those Notions we

318
00:12:53,449 --> 00:12:52,079
should be ready to challenge them in the

319
00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:53,459
same way that religious Believers should

320
00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:55,320
do it of the the church fathers that

321
00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:58,139
they inherited tradition from

322
00:13:04,430 --> 00:13:01,260
right we've used uh We've we've

323
00:13:05,949 --> 00:13:04,440
developed our own Doctrine and we use

324
00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:05,959
that as a cudgel

325
00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:08,760
uh not only against those that disagree

326
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,200
with us but it it also is a casual we

327
00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:14,639
basically hit ourselves over the head

328
00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:15,779
with

329
00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:18,620
um because it it ends up limiting us and

330
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:21,540
narrowing the way in which we permit

331
00:13:28,370 --> 00:13:26,160
ourselves uh to confront what is

332
00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:28,380
happening uh and as you were talking

333
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:31,560
about you know the experiencers

334
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:34,560
and I was thinking too in order for them

335
00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:37,560
to to even be taken seriously they have

336
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:40,200
to translate that experience that raw

337
00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:43,500
experience into language and archetypes

338
00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:46,500
that can be respected by the rational

339
00:13:52,009 --> 00:13:47,880
mind

340
00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:52,019
and that transcription process is so

341
00:14:01,069 --> 00:13:57,420
lossy uh and and and loses a great deal

342
00:14:03,290 --> 00:14:01,079
of its uh validity and veracity

343
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:03,300
um and and then we and then what we've

344
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:05,880
got then is a total abstraction that we

345
00:14:11,449 --> 00:14:07,740
just sort of share around like a mind

346
00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:11,459
virus in a way uh and and it it cleanses

347
00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:13,800
the experience of its

348
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:17,820
of its power of its of its realness uh

349
00:14:22,970 --> 00:14:21,420
and reduces it to a flat anecdote and I

350
00:14:27,050 --> 00:14:22,980
think that that that's really dangerous

351
00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:29,930
just as if if you yourself have had an

352
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:33,000
experience that is incredibly profound

353
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:34,980
and you want to share that with other

354
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:38,040
people like they're still not going to

355
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:41,100
feel what you felt no matter how good a

356
00:14:46,009 --> 00:14:43,260
job you do describing it

357
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,019
but what you felt was real

358
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:48,480
and that's something that I think if we

359
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,959
are going to be

360
00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:53,120
honest and and

361
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:57,300
Earnest in our in our search in our work

362
00:15:01,790 --> 00:14:59,519
in connecting with this we have to be

363
00:15:06,290 --> 00:15:01,800
willing to take in

364
00:15:08,030 --> 00:15:06,300
that core experience and and look it

365
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:08,040
straight in the face and say this

366
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:09,000
happened

367
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:10,680
this is real

368
00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:14,519
and I don't I may not understand it and

369
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,500
it's okay to say I mean understand it in

370
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,300
fact maybe we should fight the impulse

371
00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:20,880
to try to understand it as our first

372
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:22,980
reaction to whatever it is that we're

373
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,839
told

374
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:27,360
right I think um I'm thinking of a great

375
00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:29,639
example here I just recently heard

376
00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:31,740
someone make this point and it was very

377
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:33,660
well made at this point I mean it really

378
00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:35,880
hit home and how we do this in terms of

379
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:38,699
what we're willing to sort of accept and

380
00:15:42,350 --> 00:15:40,740
believe without much question and other

381
00:15:44,449 --> 00:15:42,360
things that we're not even if the

382
00:15:45,949 --> 00:15:44,459
general setup is the same I'll give you

383
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:45,959
an example what they were saying is that

384
00:15:50,210 --> 00:15:48,600
you know so you come home and you find

385
00:15:53,389 --> 00:15:50,220
your your little sister really

386
00:15:55,250 --> 00:15:53,399
distraught right and and you say what

387
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:55,260
happened what's wrong and she explained

388
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:57,060
since she was sexually assaulted by a

389
00:16:01,009 --> 00:15:59,519
bully at school right and you

390
00:16:02,269 --> 00:16:01,019
immediately feel rage building and

391
00:16:03,410 --> 00:16:02,279
you're like give me this person's name

392
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,420
we're going to do something about this

393
00:16:06,170 --> 00:16:05,040
right now and make sure she's okay and

394
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:06,180
we're we're going to like call the

395
00:16:09,530 --> 00:16:07,440
police we're gonna get you know law

396
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,540
enforcement involved right those were

397
00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:11,279
all your normal reactions

398
00:16:15,889 --> 00:16:14,339
now picture same thing happening you

399
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:15,899
come home you find your little sister

400
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,760
she says some strange gray beings came

401
00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:22,560
and took me and sexually assaulted me

402
00:16:26,449 --> 00:16:25,139
and then brought me back into my bed and

403
00:16:28,189 --> 00:16:26,459
I have missing time as other things that

404
00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:28,199
happen that I don't remember

405
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:29,820
do you feel that same rage coming out

406
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:31,800
you know the average person might not

407
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:33,660
the average person might go

408
00:16:38,509 --> 00:16:36,360
I don't have anywhere to put this I

409
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,519
don't this is not part of my grid you

410
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:40,560
say to her are you sure they were like

411
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,000
they looked like that could could you

412
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:43,680
have mistaken what you saw you know

413
00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:45,300
maybe did you have a dream you know like

414
00:16:48,769 --> 00:16:46,380
we started asking these kind of

415
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:48,779
questions right that's a perfect example

416
00:16:53,689 --> 00:16:52,079
of we're willing to accept

417
00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:53,699
um certain narratives as long as they

418
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,800
they don't challenge our core

419
00:17:00,170 --> 00:16:58,199
understanding of reality right and we're

420
00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:00,180
all guilty of this right I mean it's we

421
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:02,940
we have these interpretive grids we move

422
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,679
through the world with right and this is

423
00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:07,439
part of the the jarring nature of the

424
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:09,059
revelations that are coming for our

425
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,959
civilization is that almost everyone is

426
00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:14,640
going to be confronted with things they

427
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:16,679
didn't believe right whether they're

428
00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:19,439
religious Believers or atheists or you

429
00:17:24,169 --> 00:17:22,199
know modernists or whatever humanists

430
00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:24,179
you know and everyone's going to be

431
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:27,900
challenged right and so

432
00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:30,960
yeah this this really

433
00:17:36,409 --> 00:17:34,140
should make a step back and and think

434
00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:36,419
about those things we hold dear and

435
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:38,760
those things we assume about reality you

436
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,380
know I made this point I think maybe on

437
00:17:45,049 --> 00:17:42,960
the last either this on liminal frames

438
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:45,059
or on point of convergence

439
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:46,559
where

440
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,360
you know we we for instance are are

441
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:49,919
happy to go into different spiritual

442
00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:52,020
Pursuits right but only if it makes us

443
00:17:55,130 --> 00:17:53,580
feel better right that's generally why

444
00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:55,140
we do it we don't generally go into it

445
00:17:57,470 --> 00:17:56,460
if we think it's going to make us feel

446
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,480
worse

447
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,240
we sometimes talk about I just want the

448
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:01,679
truth you know

449
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:03,960
even if it's not comfortable but

450
00:18:07,549 --> 00:18:05,460
actually when you look at our Behavior

451
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,559
we usually want things that will make us

452
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:09,120
feel better because you know Modern Life

453
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:11,220
has his challenges already

454
00:18:14,690 --> 00:18:12,480
so

455
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,700
what I'm asking everyone in the audience

456
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:16,559
to do today along with us as we sort of

457
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,780
dive into some of these topics is think

458
00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:21,360
about your presuppositions and not just

459
00:18:27,049 --> 00:18:24,500
your presuppositions but the emotional

460
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:27,059
undercurrent to those it's not just that

461
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:28,559
you hold them because they sound good

462
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,900
conceptually but because they make you

463
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,880
feel a certain way about reality in your

464
00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:34,799
life in your future and your origin

465
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:37,380
right all these things I think are in

466
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,660
play and will be confronted in some

467
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:41,760
major ways with Revelations through

468
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,980
coming in the future so let's let's get

469
00:18:49,549 --> 00:18:46,080
ahead of the narrative and let's do some

470
00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:49,559
of that tonight I love that yeah it is a

471
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:51,960
deeply personal exercise

472
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:53,880
uh

473
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,320
to in a way surrender yourself to what

474
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:00,240
is happening what what it what is going

475
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:03,200
on and allow that to

476
00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:07,260
uh change and reverberate inside of you

477
00:19:13,010 --> 00:19:10,200
uh to to create change

478
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,020
and you know I've made this point many

479
00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:15,840
times that if

480
00:19:21,169 --> 00:19:19,320
if these kinds of experiences and

481
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:21,179
and and even if you know take the

482
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:23,340
experiences out of the equation entirely

483
00:19:27,950 --> 00:19:24,900
if if

484
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:27,960
if the thought of the end of your life

485
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:29,340
as you know it

486
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,160
doesn't change the way you live your

487
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,360
life

488
00:19:36,289 --> 00:19:35,280
doesn't change the way you look at the

489
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:36,299
world

490
00:19:40,490 --> 00:19:38,280
then you may need to do some more

491
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:40,500
reflection on on how on how you're lit

492
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,020
living because

493
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:45,360
uh it should you know it should and and

494
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,120
if you are honest and looking at the way

495
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:50,400
that the reality that we inhabit

496
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:51,919
functions

497
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:55,020
uh with the cycles of birth and death

498
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:56,100
and

499
00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:59,520
of things

500
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:01,020
that

501
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:09,480
others and and the planet and all these

502
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:11,039
two different things and so I but I

503
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:15,299
think we it really is this uh

504
00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:19,440
crime in a way that that modern thinking

505
00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:23,820
has committed against uh the world and

506
00:20:30,610 --> 00:20:27,260
that we have because we have so neatly

507
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:30,620
packaged all of these things into

508
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:33,900
academic disciplines orthotic exercises

509
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:36,480
or or Frameworks or whatever we've

510
00:20:42,830 --> 00:20:38,960
anesthetized them we've not allowed them

511
00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:42,840
to to impact Us in any way right to to

512
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:45,020
actually deal with what they

513
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:49,200
May instill or or catalyze within us

514
00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:52,260
within our lived experience

515
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:55,500
um and so yeah I think we

516
00:21:01,070 --> 00:20:58,020
we need to be more Frank with

517
00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:01,080
with what we are encountering uh and and

518
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,720
take it very very seriously

519
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,520
um

520
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,440
you know and and treat people as you

521
00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:09,120
would want to be be treated right like

522
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:11,220
imagine the experiencer who has the

523
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:12,960
courage to come forward and say this

524
00:21:18,289 --> 00:21:15,900
happened to me and knowing in their mind

525
00:21:21,529 --> 00:21:18,299
because by the way in their mind is the

526
00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:21,539
mind that of that rational you know

527
00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:24,900
modern person saying you are crazy

528
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:28,140
so they know how they sound

529
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:30,539
they want to just be treated though like

530
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:33,000
like a regular person you know so how do

531
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,500
we bring that into our into our

532
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:36,240
interactions not with only those

533
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:39,900
individuals with what is actually taking

534
00:21:44,270 --> 00:21:42,059
place in the world

535
00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:44,280
right now to your point there I mean

536
00:21:48,649 --> 00:21:46,260
again this is what I'm always amazed at

537
00:21:50,450 --> 00:21:48,659
Skeptics and cynics will say well these

538
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:50,460
are just people that are mentally

539
00:21:53,870 --> 00:21:51,840
unstable or they're people that are just

540
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,880
looking for notoriety and fame and

541
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,679
fortune

542
00:21:59,930 --> 00:21:58,080
and yet will you dive into these

543
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,940
experience for accounts often like you

544
00:22:03,049 --> 00:22:01,679
just said it's the last thing they ever

545
00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:03,059
want to believe about themselves that

546
00:22:07,010 --> 00:22:05,460
this is actually happening right I mean

547
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:07,020
they want to believe it's just a dream

548
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,760
they want to believe it's a delusion

549
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:10,320
they want to believe it's like bad pizza

550
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:12,600
and beer you know the previous night

551
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:15,120
there are age after case after case of

552
00:22:21,649 --> 00:22:18,960
people that go to you know psychologists

553
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:21,659
and and psychiatrists to try to

554
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:24,240
be diagnosed as insane or mentally

555
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:25,980
unstable so that they help some sort of

556
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:27,960
chemical interaction and put them back

557
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:29,220
on the right course because they'd

558
00:22:33,529 --> 00:22:31,980
rather believe that than believe that

559
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,539
this is happening to them

560
00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:35,520
and that they have to present this to

561
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:36,840
the world as something that's happening

562
00:22:41,390 --> 00:22:39,299
to that right this this is the challenge

563
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:41,400
I think two

564
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:43,740
um I was thinking about how we kind of

565
00:22:48,289 --> 00:22:45,960
again to challenge both sides of the

566
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:48,299
equation I find on the one hand you kind

567
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,440
of have the

568
00:22:54,409 --> 00:22:52,320
again the 30 000 foot view detached what

569
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:54,419
what is the phenomenon trying to teach

570
00:22:59,169 --> 00:22:57,840
us about Consciousness and it being all

571
00:23:02,210 --> 00:22:59,179
sort of like

572
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:02,220
just an Endeavor towards that exercise

573
00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:04,260
and that we don't really pay attention

574
00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:05,780
to the actual physiological

575
00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:09,000
psychological uh you know effects in

576
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,380
people's lives

577
00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:12,000
and I was thinking that's sort of the

578
00:23:15,049 --> 00:23:13,500
one side right but then you've also got

579
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:15,059
the the flip side of like the sort of

580
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:18,240
David Jacobs of the world who go oh this

581
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:19,919
is real and this is just like an alien

582
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,480
force trying to like take over our

583
00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:23,760
civilization right so they they Marshal

584
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,380
them into this sort of you know sci-fi

585
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:28,320
epic of like uh invading martians or

586
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:30,000
something right and they makes it even

587
00:23:33,529 --> 00:23:31,440
more spicy because they turn us into

588
00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:33,539
zombies right in the hybrids kind of

589
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:34,380
thing

590
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:37,559
and my point is that that too feels too

591
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:40,380
too easy and too simplistic to me you

592
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:42,360
know I think what I want to ask people

593
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:44,940
to do is to widen the aperture and and

594
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,400
ask the biggest questions about the

595
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:49,679
nature of reality but also

596
00:23:55,730 --> 00:23:52,740
not just in a hypothetical theoretical

597
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,740
you know entertaining way as an

598
00:24:00,049 --> 00:23:58,799
abstraction but what would that do for

599
00:24:01,610 --> 00:24:00,059
the way you lived your life how would

600
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:01,620
you live your life differently if you

601
00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:03,600
knew that one of the things we talked

602
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:05,400
about before we went on the air was

603
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,500
how we

604
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:09,600
have certain assumptions that we bake

605
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:11,700
into how we make decisions so we talked

606
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:13,799
about how you know the way we treat

607
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,500
animal species right and the uh

608
00:24:21,289 --> 00:24:18,240
decisions we make about what's fair to

609
00:24:23,149 --> 00:24:21,299
them right versus our needs we're used

610
00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:23,159
to being at the top of the food pyramid

611
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,860
right and so that inherently changes how

612
00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:27,600
you make the decision even if you're not

613
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:29,280
conscious of it right

614
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:32,400
but suddenly what happens when you know

615
00:24:35,390 --> 00:24:33,780
billions of people across a planet

616
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:35,400
realize we're not the top of the food

617
00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:36,240
chain

618
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:37,620
how do you feel then about how you

619
00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:40,380
treated animals how do you feel about

620
00:24:44,270 --> 00:24:42,539
how that calculus might change if you

621
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:44,280
realize the simple fact that you're not

622
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:46,020
the top of the food chain how does that

623
00:24:49,310 --> 00:24:47,640
immediately change the calculus right

624
00:24:51,049 --> 00:24:49,320
and if that's the case why aren't we

625
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:51,059
already thinking that way what is it

626
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:53,100
about our hubris that makes us come to

627
00:24:57,049 --> 00:24:55,620
that assumption to begin with so these

628
00:24:59,870 --> 00:24:57,059
are some of the the big picture things

629
00:25:01,789 --> 00:24:59,880
we want to get into tonight yeah that's

630
00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:01,799
such a good one

631
00:25:04,909 --> 00:25:02,700
um

632
00:25:06,970 --> 00:25:04,919
well I you know I want to maybe we can

633
00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:06,980
start with some

634
00:25:12,049 --> 00:25:09,780
concrete examples from

635
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,059
our art of kind of church uh Christian

636
00:25:16,430 --> 00:25:15,120
background is is you know things that it

637
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:16,440
may

638
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:17,940
kind of hit on what we're what we're

639
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:20,520
trying to talk about here and

640
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:22,559
um you know I'll go first because this

641
00:25:27,769 --> 00:25:25,140
happened you know pretty recently in

642
00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:27,779
conversation through my life

643
00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:30,539
and that's the the story the biblical

644
00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:33,240
story of the flood and you know Noah's

645
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:35,340
Ark and you know creating this giant

646
00:25:39,769 --> 00:25:38,400
wooden ship with two you know creatures

647
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:39,779
of

648
00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:43,020
uh all the creatures that were on the

649
00:25:46,669 --> 00:25:44,940
land and the air and whatever and two by

650
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:46,679
two getting onto this giant ship and

651
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,140
surviving this catastrophic flood of

652
00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:51,600
course I was raised uh to look at that

653
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:54,120
entirely allegorical and that was just

654
00:26:00,169 --> 00:25:56,940
you know kind of a localized thing and

655
00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:00,179
uh you know the whole two by two

656
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,460
situation again an allegory just to

657
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:04,559
describe you know kind of all those

658
00:26:08,690 --> 00:26:07,260
creation that needed to be saved and of

659
00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:08,700
course if you're gonna

660
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:10,919
repopulate you gotta have you know two

661
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:13,260
so

662
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:14,700
um that seemed like a pretty neat little

663
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:18,480
explanation for me as a child uh who

664
00:26:22,430 --> 00:26:19,860
looked around at the world and was

665
00:26:24,769 --> 00:26:22,440
growing up at the time of of NASA and

666
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:24,779
shuttle launches and science doing

667
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:27,000
amazing things and going well this

668
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,200
doesn't make any sense like somebody

669
00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:30,000
built a boat and you know just put some

670
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:31,260
animals on it didn't they run out of

671
00:26:34,909 --> 00:26:32,700
room how did they have enough food and

672
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:34,919
all the logistical questions that you

673
00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:36,840
know come to mind

674
00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:39,020
um and and I know so I held that

675
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:42,179
perspective for a very very long time

676
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:43,140
um

677
00:26:46,909 --> 00:26:45,179
until I got older and then realized well

678
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,919
geez this flood story is uh actually

679
00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:48,960
it's it's kind of everywhere like it's

680
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,700
not just in the Bible you know it's it's

681
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:52,799
all over the world uh so there's

682
00:26:56,450 --> 00:26:55,140
something to that and uh well there's

683
00:26:59,390 --> 00:26:56,460
something to that well maybe there's

684
00:27:01,909 --> 00:26:59,400
something to to this ship concept uh you

685
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:01,919
know to this vessel concept uh there's

686
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,020
something to this catastrophe issue you

687
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:06,960
know so that opens up a whole can of

688
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:10,380
worms to my uh intellect which had just

689
00:27:15,409 --> 00:27:13,260
very comfortably boxed it away as a a

690
00:27:16,850 --> 00:27:15,419
cute little children's story nothing to

691
00:27:18,590 --> 00:27:16,860
be afraid of you know just something

692
00:27:20,769 --> 00:27:18,600
like we can learn a lesson from that

693
00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:20,779
just like you would learn from a fable

694
00:27:27,049 --> 00:27:23,460
uh now it's something where I'm like oh

695
00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:27,059
well this may this actually happened you

696
00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:29,159
know that clearly this left an imprint

697
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:32,220
on the world and it had real

698
00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:35,460
consequences so I don't know about you

699
00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,080
but that that one really stands out for

700
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:40,140
me as a as as one right for uh for

701
00:27:43,549 --> 00:27:41,940
reassessment

702
00:27:45,649 --> 00:27:43,559
yeah absolutely that's a great one to

703
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,659
jump in on because like you say it has

704
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:48,240
so much application both in religious

705
00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:50,400
history not just Christianity and

706
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:52,200
Judaism but you know Babylonian history

707
00:27:55,549 --> 00:27:54,000
and whatnot

708
00:27:57,710 --> 00:27:55,559
you know pretty much every ancient

709
00:28:00,169 --> 00:27:57,720
civilization and religious tradition had

710
00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:00,179
this notion of a flood and kind of a

711
00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:03,960
resetting of the human population and of

712
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,179
course that's been a big part of the you

713
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:09,360
know the um the mythology behind ufology

714
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:11,220
as well right an experience for accounts

715
00:28:16,850 --> 00:28:14,820
just these ongoing premonitions about a

716
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:16,860
coming apocalypse some sort of cataclysm

717
00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:19,260
right so we have that in both of those

718
00:28:23,409 --> 00:28:21,000
different what we think of as different

719
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:23,419
kind of modalities or different

720
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:25,919
methodologies or domains

721
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:28,020
but in the same way you know we also

722
00:28:32,570 --> 00:28:30,600
have people like uh you know looking

723
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:32,580
into archaeological history and

724
00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:34,440
anthropological history people like

725
00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:36,600
Graham Hancock and saying

726
00:28:41,930 --> 00:28:38,760
you know there's there's some evidence

727
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,940
here you know in in the fossil record in

728
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:43,440
the archaeological record and the

729
00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:46,380
anthropological record to suggest that

730
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:48,779
sophisticated civilizations existed

731
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:51,600
before us and perhaps were wiped out

732
00:28:55,850 --> 00:28:53,700
even perhaps by some sort of cyclical

733
00:28:58,730 --> 00:28:55,860
recurring

734
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,740
um Cosmic event that we might be due for

735
00:29:02,350 --> 00:29:00,240
again you know that it might be every

736
00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:02,360
you know 10 to 12 000 years this happens

737
00:29:06,890 --> 00:29:05,220
and I've gone into in previous podcast

738
00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:06,900
the notion that that might not be just

739
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,700
accidental I'm being Coy there I don't

740
00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:10,799
think it is I think there's there's a

741
00:29:15,409 --> 00:29:13,380
metaphysical plan that underpins when

742
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:15,419
these things that look just like you

743
00:29:21,529 --> 00:29:19,080
know Cosmic accidents actually happen

744
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:21,539
but you know to your point about what

745
00:29:24,769 --> 00:29:23,279
you you know believed about the flood

746
00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:24,779
when you were a little kid and the way

747
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:27,000
you were raised about it I remember you

748
00:29:29,870 --> 00:29:28,380
know on the one hand being in in

749
00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:29,880
Christian circles when I was younger

750
00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:31,559
where people would like say hey did you

751
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:33,299
find here they found that they found

752
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:35,580
Noah's Ark you know like it's it's up in

753
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:38,399
this mountain such and such right

754
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:42,480
um and then then went into a a liberal

755
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,720
Progressive religious studies kind of

756
00:29:50,029 --> 00:29:48,240
program academically where we were

757
00:29:51,409 --> 00:29:50,039
taught you know we're not going to

758
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:51,419
believe this silliness about you know a

759
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:52,440
flood that covered the whole earth

760
00:29:57,289 --> 00:29:55,200
that's not even possible Right what this

761
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,299
likely was was Regional floods you know

762
00:30:01,070 --> 00:29:59,520
it's like you know Lake Superior floods

763
00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:01,080
right to them that looks like the whole

764
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:02,340
world so they're just you know again

765
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:03,779
those poor people they didn't have a

766
00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:06,600
very scientific understanding

767
00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:09,000
you know either that or or it's just

768
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,740
totally allegorical like you said right

769
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:12,480
that it's just meant to be a lesson

770
00:30:16,909 --> 00:30:13,380
right

771
00:30:19,789 --> 00:30:16,919
um uh sort of a hypothetical lesson so

772
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:19,799
yeah when I reflect on my time in in

773
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,320
Academia around religious studies and

774
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,480
biblical studies I was presented

775
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:27,120
basically with two options right one is

776
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:28,980
that

777
00:30:33,529 --> 00:30:31,260
these were literally you know demons and

778
00:30:35,570 --> 00:30:33,539
angels working on behalf of either God

779
00:30:38,510 --> 00:30:35,580
the father or Satan

780
00:30:41,389 --> 00:30:38,520
either that or option two is the entire

781
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:41,399
thing was just people making up stories

782
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,140
to try to make their their lives seem

783
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:44,880
more sensical right and they didn't feel

784
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:46,740
like these uh you know they're at the

785
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:48,779
whim of these atmospheric forces that

786
00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:49,980
they didn't understand and because they

787
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:51,960
didn't have a scientific background they

788
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:53,520
just made up stories right these got

789
00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:56,159
passed down and eventually they began to

790
00:31:00,049 --> 00:30:57,720
be accepted as true right because it

791
00:31:02,330 --> 00:31:00,059
gave you some sense of agency and some

792
00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:02,340
sort of sense of comprehension of what's

793
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,679
going on around you what was not

794
00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:06,720
presented me to me was option three

795
00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:08,700
which is that

796
00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:11,460
the UFO phenomenon that is that is

797
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,380
current in our day and age and people

798
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:15,600
are still having encounters just like

799
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:17,460
the encounters that are depicted in the

800
00:31:21,289 --> 00:31:19,440
New Testament and the Old Testament

801
00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:21,299
uh that's still going on and perhaps

802
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:23,880
what we're dealing with is a

803
00:31:29,090 --> 00:31:26,640
an outside intelligence Beyond Humanity

804
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,100
perhaps beyond the Earth whether it's

805
00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:30,960
interdimensional or extraterrestrial

806
00:31:36,769 --> 00:31:34,740
what have you but to them again within

807
00:31:39,649 --> 00:31:36,779
their mindset they interpreted that as

808
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:39,659
coming from that spiritual realm right

809
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:41,399
because they weren't from the earth as

810
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:43,380
they people understood it so that's

811
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:45,360
another possibility right in some ways

812
00:31:50,269 --> 00:31:47,279
that kind of marries our modern

813
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,279
scientific understanding of a cosmos you

814
00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:52,799
know teeming with planets and the

815
00:31:58,370 --> 00:31:55,380
possibility of life with these ancient

816
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,380
stories of encounters with like actual

817
00:32:02,810 --> 00:32:00,240
physical beings there's nothing in those

818
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:02,820
stories most of the time that suggests

819
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,260
they're meant to be taken as just

820
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:07,200
allegorical there are times where you

821
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:10,640
get some language that is uh kind of

822
00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:13,860
steered towards

823
00:32:18,649 --> 00:32:16,500
having some extra symbology added in so

824
00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:18,659
for instance when we hear about you know

825
00:32:23,389 --> 00:32:20,940
someone being tempted like Jesus 40 days

826
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:23,399
40 nights right out in the desert

827
00:32:27,169 --> 00:32:25,799
we don't necessarily literally have to

828
00:32:28,850 --> 00:32:27,179
believe that that was literally like

829
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,860
that someone took a clock and said wow

830
00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:30,960
40 days 40 nights it's crazy like on the

831
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,240
dock right it's more like that was a

832
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,000
phrase to mean a long period of

833
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:37,860
endurance right the same way that I

834
00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:39,720
might say hey Nathan have fun out there

835
00:32:42,730 --> 00:32:41,520
and break a leg right and later people

836
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,740
will say

837
00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:45,360
wow that's so weird that he was wishing

838
00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:47,820
his friend to break a limb what kind of

839
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:50,340
friend does that right you know and and

840
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:52,500
so this is where idioms and and things

841
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,940
get lost over time right they get

842
00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:56,159
misinterpreted but my point is that it

843
00:33:02,330 --> 00:32:59,520
can both be a real event right

844
00:33:04,970 --> 00:33:02,340
and also have some

845
00:33:06,889 --> 00:33:04,980
um some local idioms and some of the

846
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,899
culture of the time inevitably gets in

847
00:33:11,810 --> 00:33:08,399
there just like it would for us right

848
00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:11,820
but to not you know reduce it to these

849
00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:14,279
two binary options of its either

850
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:17,820
allegory or is absolutely written and

851
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:19,320
should be interpreted just as it was

852
00:33:23,149 --> 00:33:21,299
written right we have to somehow be able

853
00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:23,159
to parse all of that

854
00:33:27,649 --> 00:33:25,380
you know in a way that is not just

855
00:33:29,570 --> 00:33:27,659
imaginative but really tries to deal

856
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:29,580
with the hard realities of it right even

857
00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,260
if it makes us question what we thought

858
00:33:35,450 --> 00:33:34,019
about reality they had to do that and I

859
00:33:37,630 --> 00:33:35,460
think we have to do the very same thing

860
00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:37,640
today with with the phenomena

861
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:40,860
yeah if you think about how

862
00:33:46,009 --> 00:33:44,399
the way in which the phenomena sort of

863
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:46,019
punctuates

864
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:49,519
experience uh you know on a

865
00:33:54,549 --> 00:33:52,500
societal scale not an individual scale

866
00:33:58,190 --> 00:33:54,559
we have a lot of evidence to show that

867
00:34:01,490 --> 00:33:58,200
uh individuals experience aspects of the

868
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,500
phenomena pretty frequently from some of

869
00:34:07,310 --> 00:34:03,360
the more mundane things that happen to

870
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,320
the to the really extraordinary but if

871
00:34:12,190 --> 00:34:09,359
we if we take into consideration those

872
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:12,200
extraordinary events and how they are

873
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,280
interspersed in society uh

874
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,679
more infrequently

875
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,800
it makes a lot of sense that that those

876
00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:25,200
that experience it most closely most

877
00:34:29,389 --> 00:34:27,599
tangibly you know they're translating as

878
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,399
I said earlier they're Translating that

879
00:34:32,329 --> 00:34:31,440
experience for everyone else who hasn't

880
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:32,339
had it

881
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:35,700
and then as time goes on as time does

882
00:34:40,849 --> 00:34:38,460
and these things don't happen every day

883
00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:40,859
the distance between that event and that

884
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:43,080
moment and that person who experienced

885
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:47,159
it uh and and who's you know hearing

886
00:34:54,290 --> 00:34:52,260
that metaphorical uh sort of meme to

887
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,300
describe what it was like that distance

888
00:34:59,450 --> 00:34:56,879
grows and then and then then time

889
00:35:04,130 --> 00:34:59,460
continues doing its thing and it it it

890
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,140
erodes and Fades the uh the realness of

891
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,960
that of that experience uh to where at

892
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:08,880
some point it does kind of become

893
00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:10,980
nothing but an abstraction

894
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,000
right that's true today just as it I

895
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,520
think as we're arguing is true uh then

896
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:20,160
right so we're what we're kind of saying

897
00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:23,220
here is let's take a fulsome view of

898
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:25,140
everything we know about human

899
00:35:31,609 --> 00:35:28,859
experience that has been recorded

900
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:31,619
in various ways and let's look at it

901
00:35:37,150 --> 00:35:33,119
honestly

902
00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:37,160
let's not create The Superficial uh

903
00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:40,020
distinctions uh

904
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:42,420
let's take it very seriously and if

905
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,220
we're doing that and if we can come up

906
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:46,560
with a

907
00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:50,160
a model that has explanatory power for

908
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:52,619
all of that both what what we're hearing

909
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:55,440
now what we read about then well then

910
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:57,720
that model if it if it works if it

911
00:36:01,130 --> 00:35:59,520
explains things or if it's it has if

912
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:01,140
it's efficacious well we're on to

913
00:36:05,150 --> 00:36:02,880
something right

914
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:05,160
um and that allows us I think to be more

915
00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:07,260
uh

916
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,099
um

917
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,720
honor

918
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:15,119
what happened in our past that's what we

919
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,800
do now is we basically say oh that's a

920
00:36:20,210 --> 00:36:18,720
that's a quaint story you know I'm just

921
00:36:22,490 --> 00:36:20,220
going to discard that I don't really

922
00:36:24,349 --> 00:36:22,500
have to worry about it because it talked

923
00:36:27,410 --> 00:36:24,359
about some scary things and scary things

924
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:27,420
don't happen in the world that I inhabit

925
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:30,119
what happens in the world I inhabit are

926
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:31,980
things that I know

927
00:36:37,069 --> 00:36:34,619
are sort of within this possibility

928
00:36:40,190 --> 00:36:37,079
space that it's very narrow and they

929
00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:40,200
happen on my terms or they happen on on

930
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,140
uh this uh sort of State Powers terms

931
00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:45,359
because it's you know it's running the

932
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,780
show it does nothing interrupts our our

933
00:36:52,490 --> 00:36:50,640
life that's the that's the sort of fairy

934
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,500
tale we tell ourselves nothing actually

935
00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:55,200
interrupts the life that we have it's

936
00:36:59,329 --> 00:36:56,700
all very very laid out and pretty

937
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:59,339
predictable uh yeah we know and it's

938
00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:00,960
funny how quickly we forget that

939
00:37:06,050 --> 00:37:03,900
interruptions happen all the time uh and

940
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:06,060
they radically change uh not only our

941
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:07,980
personal lives but but the World At

942
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:10,320
Large so I think that's important too to

943
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:12,660
not lose a focus on the fact that these

944
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:15,300
things happen and will happen they are a

945
00:37:20,210 --> 00:37:17,520
certainty as much as I mean as much as

946
00:37:21,770 --> 00:37:20,220
we might want to explain them away as oh

947
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,780
it's not something I really have to deal

948
00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:23,520
with

949
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,800
right and so

950
00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:27,839
something I was I came across recently

951
00:37:31,849 --> 00:37:30,839
that I was impressed by was someone who

952
00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:31,859
was

953
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,440
from like us you know studied

954
00:37:40,430 --> 00:37:36,720
um religion but academically right

955
00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:40,440
and they they realized that

956
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:43,140
so both options they were given you know

957
00:37:46,730 --> 00:37:45,119
in school and growing up kind of missed

958
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,740
the boat right because

959
00:37:49,849 --> 00:37:48,480
in the same way that we just talked

960
00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:49,859
about they were sort of given the one

961
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:52,260
option like you know in Sunday school

962
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:54,300
and you know during the sermon on Sunday

963
00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:56,520
morning that you know you take this as

964
00:38:01,130 --> 00:37:58,680
literal truth and that means you know

965
00:38:02,450 --> 00:38:01,140
that the world is not that old and you

966
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:02,460
know dinosaurs couldn't be real because

967
00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:03,839
they're not the Bible you have this very

968
00:38:07,849 --> 00:38:06,300
like you know truncated understanding of

969
00:38:11,089 --> 00:38:07,859
reality that takes certain things

970
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:11,099
literally doesn't consider any of the

971
00:38:14,089 --> 00:38:12,660
things we talked about With Idioms and

972
00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:14,099
local cultures and a lack of a

973
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:16,200
scientific understanding until you

974
00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:17,520
basically look at like the Bible like

975
00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:19,020
some sort of thing that floated from

976
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:21,660
heaven in a finished form and it's you

977
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,400
know it applies across time regardless

978
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:25,440
of culture

979
00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:27,300
you're given that option or you're given

980
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:30,119
sort of like this extremely abstracted

981
00:38:35,569 --> 00:38:34,079
away like cultural study right this

982
00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:35,579
um

983
00:38:40,370 --> 00:38:37,980
this parsed out cultural study of a

984
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:40,380
people and so by doing that you you can

985
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,420
say for them this was true right and

986
00:38:46,609 --> 00:38:44,400
then that way you sort of like fit in

987
00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:46,619
with modern political correctness right

988
00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:48,300
because you don't say they were kind of

989
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,940
silly for thinking that that's not you

990
00:38:54,589 --> 00:38:52,320
know considered kosher anymore so you

991
00:38:56,329 --> 00:38:54,599
say this is this is their their belief

992
00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:56,339
system right and but by doing that it

993
00:38:59,569 --> 00:38:58,380
also allows you to be like an arm's

994
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,579
length away from it right and you don't

995
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:00,960
have to actually deal with any of those

996
00:39:05,569 --> 00:39:03,359
truth claims right and what this person

997
00:39:07,790 --> 00:39:05,579
was doing was they were able to see a

998
00:39:09,230 --> 00:39:07,800
third option which is that when they

999
00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:09,240
read those accounts again and they

1000
00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:10,859
compare it with modern accounts of the

1001
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:13,320
UFO phenomenon they see the same thing

1002
00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:15,599
and this is something that is not

1003
00:39:20,569 --> 00:39:17,400
offered in either of those right like

1004
00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:20,579
even in the ufology circles that we are

1005
00:39:24,589 --> 00:39:22,140
in all the time

1006
00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:24,599
you don't have this marriage going on

1007
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,240
right you don't have this grappling with

1008
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:29,520
what does this mean about our origin as

1009
00:39:33,470 --> 00:39:31,740
a species right

1010
00:39:35,210 --> 00:39:33,480
you know you think about this in terms

1011
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,220
of like the fairy Paradox I was thinking

1012
00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:37,200
about this a while ago

1013
00:39:41,450 --> 00:39:39,420
you know one of the the conundrums of of

1014
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,460
Modern Life is the Fermi Paradox which

1015
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,920
says that based on our cosmological

1016
00:39:47,569 --> 00:39:45,599
understanding

1017
00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:47,579
you know there should be life all over

1018
00:39:52,750 --> 00:39:49,500
the place right we we shouldn't be that

1019
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:52,760
unique because even again if if you know

1020
00:39:58,609 --> 00:39:55,680
life-bearing planets are even not the

1021
00:40:00,890 --> 00:39:58,619
majority there's so many planets and so

1022
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,900
many systems and so many galaxies in

1023
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:02,640
this immense universe that we can't even

1024
00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:05,880
wrap our heads around the enormity why

1025
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:07,380
are we not seeing them right now I know

1026
00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:08,460
some people will claim this because

1027
00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:10,020
they're too far apart that's why we

1028
00:40:13,609 --> 00:40:11,460
don't you know takes too long to get

1029
00:40:16,730 --> 00:40:13,619
here they limit themselves to the speed

1030
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:16,740
of light and they are sure that our 21st

1031
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:18,420
century understanding of physics is the

1032
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:21,359
absolute no we've arrived at like you

1033
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:23,579
know total knowledge which is so

1034
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:25,140
Preposterous right when you think about

1035
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:26,520
it

1036
00:40:31,609 --> 00:40:29,040
but what I think about when I step back

1037
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:31,619
and go no the truth probably is there

1038
00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:33,660
were civilizations around long before us

1039
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,660
and they're so far beyond us that they

1040
00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:38,880
can seat us they can

1041
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:41,460
they can intervene and tweak our

1042
00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:45,060
genetics and they can in kind of again

1043
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:47,220
to you know give honor here to Jacques

1044
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,520
they can kind of in a in a in a way that

1045
00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:53,160
doesn't uh directly impose themselves

1046
00:40:57,890 --> 00:40:55,260
and not the kind of control assistive

1047
00:41:00,650 --> 00:40:57,900
way manage our civilization manage the

1048
00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:00,660
evolution of our social structures right

1049
00:41:05,569 --> 00:41:03,000
and our biological and physiological

1050
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:05,579
structures without us ever being any of

1051
00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:07,560
the wiser right that that seems to me

1052
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:09,480
actually now that I think about it the

1053
00:41:16,849 --> 00:41:13,200
more logical conclusion that because

1054
00:41:18,290 --> 00:41:16,859
the age of the universe there are local

1055
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:18,300
places that are much older than other

1056
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,460
places right the the part of the

1057
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:22,800
galactic arm at the edge of the Milky

1058
00:41:26,569 --> 00:41:24,180
Way that we're in is fairly young

1059
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:26,579
compared to other galaxies and even

1060
00:41:30,170 --> 00:41:27,599
other

1061
00:41:31,609 --> 00:41:30,180
component parts of our galaxy right the

1062
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:31,619
closer you are to the center the older

1063
00:41:36,650 --> 00:41:34,800
it is right so we're talking about like

1064
00:41:39,890 --> 00:41:36,660
millions and billions of years different

1065
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:39,900
potentially in the ancient civilization

1066
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:41,880
so you go with what we believe about

1067
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,220
cosmology that likely the University of

1068
00:41:47,810 --> 00:41:46,560
tuning with wine and then you say the

1069
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:47,820
reason we're not seeing it is because

1070
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:49,800
we're just too perimeter right it's

1071
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:51,540
they're not going to be sending radio

1072
00:41:55,069 --> 00:41:53,460
signals right there probably is some

1073
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:55,079
sort of time directive that kind of

1074
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,420
thing it says these are listed the

1075
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:59,520
little ant colony you know and again you

1076
00:42:02,030 --> 00:42:00,420
don't have to

1077
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:02,040
take that as like this like they have

1078
00:42:05,930 --> 00:42:04,500
this unfeeling uncaring I can just kick

1079
00:42:08,270 --> 00:42:05,940
the ankle and I don't care I don't want

1080
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:08,280
you to think that I'm just saying to

1081
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:11,160
them we are this you know young genetic

1082
00:42:14,329 --> 00:42:13,500
experiment in Civilization history kind

1083
00:42:16,849 --> 00:42:14,339
of thing

1084
00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:16,859
that seems much more likely than that we

1085
00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:19,980
just happen to rise on our own through

1086
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,500
the fluke of natural selection

1087
00:42:26,510 --> 00:42:24,720
you know it seems much more likely to be

1088
00:42:28,609 --> 00:42:26,520
former than the latter and yet we're

1089
00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:28,619
taught this modern myth right the same

1090
00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:30,300
way that ancient religious people were

1091
00:42:33,770 --> 00:42:31,980
brought up in a myth we're taught this

1092
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:33,780
modern method tries to

1093
00:42:38,329 --> 00:42:35,940
make ourselves to interstate so in the

1094
00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:38,339
same way ironically that modern

1095
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:40,440
scientists are very critical of the

1096
00:42:43,490 --> 00:42:41,940
Catholic church and it's silly of you

1097
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:43,500
that the Earth was at the center of the

1098
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:45,780
universe right in the same room we still

1099
00:42:50,930 --> 00:42:48,000
put ourselves at the center and assuming

1100
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:50,940
that everything about our history is

1101
00:42:53,870 --> 00:42:52,740
about acts right that that there's there

1102
00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:53,880
couldn't have been a civilization in

1103
00:42:58,490 --> 00:42:55,500
quora we've got to be the first one on

1104
00:43:00,650 --> 00:42:58,500
the Earth and and furthermore that we

1105
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:00,660
couldn't have been put here through this

1106
00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:02,280
genetic process of some older

1107
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:03,420
civilization

1108
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,980
we'd rather believe that it just

1109
00:43:08,510 --> 00:43:06,240
happened by some sort of you know

1110
00:43:10,609 --> 00:43:08,520
biological physiological fluke of

1111
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:10,619
environmental conditions and chemicals

1112
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:12,240
coming together in such a way that it

1113
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:15,119
happened completely you know by random

1114
00:43:18,349 --> 00:43:16,380
chance basically

1115
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:18,359
that just seems to keep Preposterous

1116
00:43:23,329 --> 00:43:20,460
when I think about it

1117
00:43:26,510 --> 00:43:23,339
yeah it's a very convenient fairy tale

1118
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:26,520
um that allows us to to sleep at night

1119
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:30,240
um and uh as we as we've talked about

1120
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:31,680
many many times

1121
00:43:36,829 --> 00:43:34,740
um it's so if you do any honest

1122
00:43:39,890 --> 00:43:36,839
assessment of of where we've been and

1123
00:43:42,349 --> 00:43:39,900
where we are uh you can't come away from

1124
00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:42,359
that assessment without seeing that

1125
00:43:47,809 --> 00:43:44,700
whatever we think is happening is is

1126
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:47,819
basically wrong you know it's wrong in

1127
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,520
in so many different ways

1128
00:43:55,130 --> 00:43:51,839
um the

1129
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:55,140
the the I think the challenge is that we

1130
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,180
have and we've we've touched on this in

1131
00:44:03,790 --> 00:43:59,280
an episode as well is that the

1132
00:44:08,809 --> 00:44:03,800
explanatory power that was unlocked

1133
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:08,819
by the scientific method for example

1134
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:12,240
um its ability for us to gain Mastery

1135
00:44:17,710 --> 00:44:15,119
over the material world in ways that we

1136
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:17,720
hadn't in all of the centuries before it

1137
00:44:25,130 --> 00:44:21,359
uh took over our entire way of thinking

1138
00:44:26,809 --> 00:44:25,140
it transformed everything that we do and

1139
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:26,819
how we look at the world and our place

1140
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:30,480
in it uh where you know the top of the

1141
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:33,599
food chain etc etc and and what we don't

1142
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:35,880
realize is that while yes it's given us

1143
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:39,060
this incredible kind of sight it's as if

1144
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:40,740
we just decided to put on a pair of

1145
00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:42,780
binoculars and not see the rest of the

1146
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:45,540
world we can see you know in a certain

1147
00:44:51,349 --> 00:44:48,240
direction with greater Clarity but we

1148
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:51,359
can't see everything else and uh and we

1149
00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:52,980
and now we've been mistaken what we're

1150
00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:55,740
seeing in the binoculars for

1151
00:45:01,730 --> 00:44:58,440
exactly as you know that that's exactly

1152
00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:01,740
what it is what reality is and so you

1153
00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:03,420
know we're

1154
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:05,940
the beautiful thing about about the

1155
00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:07,020
phenomena

1156
00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:09,720
is that it does as we've talked about

1157
00:45:17,569 --> 00:45:14,460
you know today it does redeem the

1158
00:45:20,089 --> 00:45:17,579
experiences that we have across you know

1159
00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:20,099
human civilization that at least that we

1160
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,380
have recorded and it brings them back

1161
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:24,480
into the into the conversation in a way

1162
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:27,599
that is fair uh as if as if it was

1163
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,240
happening right now and I think we we

1164
00:45:34,609 --> 00:45:32,280
need to do that if we're not doing that

1165
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:34,619
if we're still looking at these stories

1166
00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:36,240
from our past and saying well that's a

1167
00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:39,060
quaint little you know kind of way of

1168
00:45:42,109 --> 00:45:40,619
looking at the world and boy they were

1169
00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:42,119
super wrong

1170
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:43,980
uh then I think we've missed the boat

1171
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:46,800
here uh we really have to take all these

1172
00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:48,960
things into consideration and with that

1173
00:45:53,809 --> 00:45:51,660
in mind I mean we uh I don't know how

1174
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:53,819
much in detail we want to get here but

1175
00:45:58,609 --> 00:45:56,700
in talking about getting uncomfortable

1176
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:58,619
um but

1177
00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:01,200
you know let's take some of the the

1178
00:46:05,770 --> 00:46:03,720
things that happen and and you know UFO

1179
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:05,780
experience or the phenomenal experience

1180
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,640
and uh and let's kind of take them

1181
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:10,800
seriously you know things like Abduction

1182
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:12,980
or hybridization

1183
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:15,480
uh or

1184
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,200
um

1185
00:46:20,809 --> 00:46:19,440
missing time you know or all these

1186
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:20,819
things that we wanted to say well that

1187
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:23,520
just happened in the person's head you

1188
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:24,780
know if these things are actually

1189
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:26,520
happening

1190
00:46:30,410 --> 00:46:28,260
now what what is that what does that

1191
00:46:32,089 --> 00:46:30,420
mean and how do we fit that within the

1192
00:46:33,890 --> 00:46:32,099
context of everything we just talked

1193
00:46:36,650 --> 00:46:33,900
about you know the kind of the span of

1194
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,660
human history that that we know

1195
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:39,119
right and it it seems to me that the the

1196
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:42,240
more apt conclusion to come to

1197
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:45,660
is it the same intelligence or groups of

1198
00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:48,720
intelligences that were seeding and

1199
00:46:52,849 --> 00:46:51,240
shaping our civilization are still doing

1200
00:46:54,530 --> 00:46:52,859
that today and of course why wouldn't

1201
00:46:56,270 --> 00:46:54,540
they right I mean we're not a finished

1202
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:56,280
product and

1203
00:46:59,569 --> 00:46:57,599
one of the things we wanted to get into

1204
00:47:03,290 --> 00:46:59,579
in this topic that we can in a little

1205
00:47:04,849 --> 00:47:03,300
bit is um just maybe how how off the

1206
00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:04,859
experiment has gone you know like how

1207
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:06,660
Wayward we are and what kind of

1208
00:47:11,809 --> 00:47:10,380
civilization we've created and what you

1209
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,819
know our progenitors might think about

1210
00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:13,200
that you know

1211
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:14,520
um that's something we want to get into

1212
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:15,540
as well

1213
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,640
but yeah to your point absolutely I

1214
00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:19,920
think what this does first and foremost

1215
00:47:24,349 --> 00:47:22,500
is it it humanizes these ancient

1216
00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:24,359
religious figures right

1217
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,940
and what's also strange is that and this

1218
00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:28,680
is just the way that human beings are

1219
00:47:33,230 --> 00:47:30,660
really really

1220
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,240
awkward and how we conceptualize things

1221
00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:35,280
and how we group things arbitrarily

1222
00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:37,380
sometimes because on the one hand we

1223
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:38,940
kind of turn these ancient figures into

1224
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:41,760
Heroes and Larger than Life right rather

1225
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:42,960
than realizing they were just human

1226
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,240
beings like us and sometimes when we

1227
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:47,040
read back the Biblical history there's

1228
00:47:51,170 --> 00:47:48,780
some things ethnically and morally that

1229
00:47:53,390 --> 00:47:51,180
go on you're like that's not less that's

1230
00:47:55,130 --> 00:47:53,400
not so cool you know and in our modern

1231
00:47:57,470 --> 00:47:55,140
politically correct culture a lot of

1232
00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:57,480
that stuff would just not fly right

1233
00:48:01,309 --> 00:48:00,060
but but that's because they were humans

1234
00:48:02,990 --> 00:48:01,319
and they were in a different cultural

1235
00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:03,000
context that had different senses of

1236
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,680
what's right and wrong different moral

1237
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,480
codes that's been part of the evolution

1238
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,520
of Consciousness right

1239
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,079
in the same way that we've talked before

1240
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:11,760
about you know our

1241
00:48:15,710 --> 00:48:13,500
you know our future descendants will one

1242
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:15,720
day look back at our 21st century and

1243
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,460
say wow they were so barbaric I can't

1244
00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:18,720
believe they thought this was okay or

1245
00:48:22,910 --> 00:48:20,760
they thought that was okay I mean if for

1246
00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:22,920
people out there if you really think

1247
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:25,020
that we are finally now hitting the

1248
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:27,720
epitome and the summit of moral

1249
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:29,400
development and we can just look back

1250
00:48:33,650 --> 00:48:31,800
and Judgment of everybody before us but

1251
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,660
our descendants won't do the same for us

1252
00:48:36,589 --> 00:48:34,800
then I think you're just fooling

1253
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,599
yourself you know you're you're missing

1254
00:48:41,809 --> 00:48:38,880
the point of the exercise which is to

1255
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,819
say that these things never come to a

1256
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:43,680
resolution point you all there's always

1257
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:46,680
further perspective that could help you

1258
00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:48,780
even have a more subtle understanding of

1259
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,940
what is just and what is fair and and

1260
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,319
again we can get into that a little bit

1261
00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:53,760
in terms of how that might look

1262
00:48:58,250 --> 00:48:55,560
differently in a cosmic perspective

1263
00:49:00,530 --> 00:48:58,260
rather than a human perspective uh but

1264
00:49:02,809 --> 00:49:00,540
but these are things that people should

1265
00:49:04,670 --> 00:49:02,819
wrestle with and just to be clear the

1266
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:04,680
reason why we're bringing this up in

1267
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:07,380
this episode is because

1268
00:49:11,089 --> 00:49:09,060
there's a sense that there's something

1269
00:49:13,370 --> 00:49:11,099
really afoot in our civilization right

1270
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,380
now there's there seems to be a certain

1271
00:49:18,829 --> 00:49:16,079
kind of interaction between these

1272
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:18,839
seeding shaping intelligences

1273
00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:22,079
and our civilization that will make us

1274
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,940
have to Grapple with these issues sooner

1275
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:26,160
than later so we're just kind of trying

1276
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,670
yeah and um

1277
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,119
yeah I'm glad you brought up the the

1278
00:49:37,849 --> 00:49:36,000
ethical uh sort of Frameworks there and

1279
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:37,859
the perspective and you touched on at

1280
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:40,319
the beginning too that we've

1281
00:49:44,329 --> 00:49:42,240
it's just it's an understanding it's

1282
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:44,339
very easy for us to do we put a human

1283
00:49:49,970 --> 00:49:46,260
sort of ethical perspective at the

1284
00:49:53,809 --> 00:49:49,980
center of our thinking and we have a

1285
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:53,819
very difficult time uh considering other

1286
00:50:00,109 --> 00:49:56,640
ethical imperatives that that don't put

1287
00:50:02,569 --> 00:50:00,119
humans first right and so you know when

1288
00:50:05,390 --> 00:50:02,579
you begin to invite those other ethical

1289
00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:05,400
considerations into the equation

1290
00:50:12,490 --> 00:50:08,339
uh it does help to I think anyway help

1291
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:12,500
to make sense of some of the behavior

1292
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:15,839
that we have heard about read about and

1293
00:50:22,130 --> 00:50:18,900
experienced from these others

1294
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,140
um as as awful as it may sound to us it

1295
00:50:27,950 --> 00:50:24,720
doesn't sound any less awful than the

1296
00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:27,960
way we might treat uh you know an animal

1297
00:50:32,770 --> 00:50:30,599
that we we've bred for food or an animal

1298
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:32,780
that we have breaded for domestication

1299
00:50:37,790 --> 00:50:35,220
it's not something that they necessarily

1300
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:37,800
chose we took these animals and and we

1301
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:40,920
corralled them and and guided their

1302
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:43,500
behavior and and we had an outcome in

1303
00:50:47,150 --> 00:50:45,900
mind and sometimes we we killed them if

1304
00:50:49,609 --> 00:50:47,160
the outcome

1305
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:49,619
wasn't proceeding in the direction that

1306
00:50:55,849 --> 00:50:52,740
we wanted it to proceed now all that

1307
00:50:58,370 --> 00:50:55,859
said we also in the process of doing

1308
00:51:00,829 --> 00:50:58,380
those things and and you know this

1309
00:51:03,230 --> 00:51:00,839
happens has happened it happens now and

1310
00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:03,240
will happen again in various stages like

1311
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:06,780
we wrestle with that activity you know

1312
00:51:11,809 --> 00:51:10,020
our our Mastery over this uh the

1313
00:51:13,609 --> 00:51:11,819
environment that we've we find ourselves

1314
00:51:15,230 --> 00:51:13,619
in our interaction with it our

1315
00:51:18,109 --> 00:51:15,240
engagement with it a relationship with

1316
00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:18,119
it it does confront us it's not just a

1317
00:51:22,190 --> 00:51:20,520
one-way interaction so what we do and

1318
00:51:24,349 --> 00:51:22,200
what what happens with what we do the

1319
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:24,359
consequences of our Behavior

1320
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:29,220
those consequences do change Us in in

1321
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,099
many of the same ways that that those

1322
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:34,319
things that we're trying to engineer or

1323
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:37,260
or craft or whatever are changed so it

1324
00:51:40,609 --> 00:51:39,839
is a very Dynamic process

1325
00:51:43,069 --> 00:51:40,619
um

1326
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,079
it's not just like a computer where

1327
00:51:47,410 --> 00:51:44,880
we're you know kind of putting in some

1328
00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:47,420
net inputs and getting one thing we're

1329
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:49,619
reevaluating we're assessing and we're

1330
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:53,040
changing this over time and just as we

1331
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:55,200
do that with the things that we've

1332
00:52:00,650 --> 00:51:57,119
interacted with I think we can argue

1333
00:52:03,650 --> 00:52:00,660
that a broader ethical perspective would

1334
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,660
would consider the same so these others

1335
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:06,420
are also doing something uh the the same

1336
00:52:11,690 --> 00:52:09,300
just that we're now the ones being you

1337
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,700
know engineered or whatever uh and in

1338
00:52:15,770 --> 00:52:13,920
the process of their interaction with us

1339
00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:15,780
they're getting some things right

1340
00:52:20,329 --> 00:52:18,420
getting some things wrong evaluating you

1341
00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:20,339
know the interaction the the experiment

1342
00:52:25,849 --> 00:52:23,700
if you will and uh and assessing it and

1343
00:52:27,950 --> 00:52:25,859
and are you know it it probably at

1344
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:27,960
moments being like let's keep going

1345
00:52:31,490 --> 00:52:29,760
let's keep trying let's make this work

1346
00:52:33,890 --> 00:52:31,500
we may be messed up here a little bit we

1347
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:33,900
messed up there but let's keep at it and

1348
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,980
then there are other times where like

1349
00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:36,480
you know what we kind of took a wrong

1350
00:52:41,809 --> 00:52:39,420
turn here somewhere and uh you know the

1351
00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:41,819
things that we thought were good

1352
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:42,599
um

1353
00:52:47,390 --> 00:52:44,579
maybe not so much maybe we'd seem to hit

1354
00:52:49,010 --> 00:52:47,400
the reset and start again

1355
00:52:50,089 --> 00:52:49,020
um and to us that sounds oh gosh you

1356
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,099
know why would we do that I can't

1357
00:52:54,650 --> 00:52:52,079
believe it but um

1358
00:52:59,569 --> 00:52:54,660
you know from their perspective it could

1359
00:53:03,470 --> 00:53:02,210
yeah absolutely I think that leads us to

1360
00:53:05,170 --> 00:53:03,480
a part of the conversation we can get

1361
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:05,180
into now which is around

1362
00:53:10,130 --> 00:53:08,280
challenging some of the presuppositions

1363
00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:10,140
and the assumptions we bring to these

1364
00:53:13,549 --> 00:53:11,880
matters

1365
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:13,559
I think

1366
00:53:17,690 --> 00:53:15,119
some of the things that we're talking

1367
00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:17,700
about today will be challenging for some

1368
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:19,260
people or some people it has a lot of

1369
00:53:21,770 --> 00:53:20,220
gravity

1370
00:53:24,770 --> 00:53:21,780
but there's some other aspects that I

1371
00:53:26,930 --> 00:53:24,780
think will will likewise open up some of

1372
00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:26,940
the assumptions we bring in that open up

1373
00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:30,540
new possibilities of for instance why

1374
00:53:34,849 --> 00:53:33,420
a cataclysm or a resetting could be

1375
00:53:38,030 --> 00:53:34,859
actually a good thing in a big picture

1376
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:38,040
even for us right so these are things to

1377
00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:40,980
think about and and

1378
00:53:45,650 --> 00:53:42,420
so I think we should get into that now

1379
00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:45,660
but to begin let's talk about like you

1380
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:47,099
kind of hinted at you know for instance

1381
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:51,059
you know we might as human beings again

1382
00:53:54,170 --> 00:53:52,319
used to being at the top of the food

1383
00:53:56,510 --> 00:53:54,180
chain and we see ourselves as you know

1384
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:56,520
one step removed from the godhead right

1385
00:54:00,410 --> 00:53:58,800
again we I sort of made that joke about

1386
00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:00,420
the king of France right kind of sees

1387
00:54:03,049 --> 00:54:01,920
himself as one step down a few episodes

1388
00:54:04,609 --> 00:54:03,059
ago

1389
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:04,619
well we still kind of think that way

1390
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:07,040
right I mean even even

1391
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,880
reductionistic scientists who maybe

1392
00:54:13,069 --> 00:54:11,280
don't believe that specifically they

1393
00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:13,079
still see themselves as the top of the

1394
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:15,300
food chain that we're aware of right and

1395
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:17,040
that inherently involves certain

1396
00:54:22,490 --> 00:54:19,920
assumptions and it changes the calculus

1397
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,500
for how you make decisions so we might

1398
00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:24,480
rail against the notion of

1399
00:54:29,329 --> 00:54:26,940
alien beings you know running a

1400
00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:29,339
hybridization experiments on us right

1401
00:54:35,290 --> 00:54:31,079
yeah what do we do with cats and dogs

1402
00:54:37,849 --> 00:54:35,300
right we we have centuries now of of

1403
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:37,859
basically genetically experimenting with

1404
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,680
breeding programs to create these little

1405
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,960
tiny kublic dogs that look like puppies

1406
00:54:47,210 --> 00:54:45,359
for their entire lives because we we

1407
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:47,220
like them when they look that way right

1408
00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:49,200
we're we considering the best interests

1409
00:54:53,809 --> 00:54:52,140
of those dogs those wolves from ancient

1410
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:53,819
history when we made those decisions I

1411
00:54:57,049 --> 00:54:55,440
don't think so that they have a say in

1412
00:54:59,650 --> 00:54:57,059
it right they might be sitting around

1413
00:55:02,809 --> 00:54:59,660
going who are these

1414
00:55:04,970 --> 00:55:02,819
non-animal intelligences that are doing

1415
00:55:06,170 --> 00:55:04,980
these things to us right I mean how dare

1416
00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:06,180
they and it's happened for multiple

1417
00:55:10,190 --> 00:55:07,380
Generations

1418
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:10,200
that's us right so who are we to say the

1419
00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:12,359
same thing about these alien beings

1420
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:14,460
doing the very same thing other than the

1421
00:55:19,010 --> 00:55:17,040
only difference is now we're the ones in

1422
00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:19,020
the position of what we perceive as the

1423
00:55:23,930 --> 00:55:22,020
helpless victims right so just step

1424
00:55:25,849 --> 00:55:23,940
outside for a second and go is there

1425
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:25,859
really any difference there

1426
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,839
I've heard some people say well the

1427
00:55:32,270 --> 00:55:29,520
difference is we have we we have

1428
00:55:34,190 --> 00:55:32,280
civilization and art and culture these

1429
00:55:35,690 --> 00:55:34,200
things that really matter right we're

1430
00:55:37,130 --> 00:55:35,700
different than the animals that way so

1431
00:55:39,049 --> 00:55:37,140
they shouldn't do that to us because we

1432
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:39,059
were different right we're more evolved

1433
00:55:43,549 --> 00:55:40,680
we're sophisticated

1434
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,559
and I'm thinking to myself well maybe

1435
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,839
the animals or the dogs think about that

1436
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,760
about the the things they've done the

1437
00:55:51,049 --> 00:55:49,500
the bones they've gathered and put in a

1438
00:55:53,809 --> 00:55:51,059
certain circle they go look at this work

1439
00:55:56,329 --> 00:55:53,819
of art right and my point is that that's

1440
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:56,339
completely subjective right and it's

1441
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,740
relative so we might think that these

1442
00:56:05,329 --> 00:56:00,960
things we've built are are amazing and

1443
00:56:06,650 --> 00:56:05,339
you know uh are a signpost to our great

1444
00:56:08,690 --> 00:56:06,660
sophistication

1445
00:56:10,609 --> 00:56:08,700
but another intelligence might look at

1446
00:56:12,589 --> 00:56:10,619
it and say you know you kind of rape the

1447
00:56:15,170 --> 00:56:12,599
planet you you treat it like a commodity

1448
00:56:17,150 --> 00:56:15,180
that you can just take take take

1449
00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:17,160
you weave when you're faced with

1450
00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:18,780
evidence that you're doing damage to the

1451
00:56:24,170 --> 00:56:20,760
planet your political structures will

1452
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,180
try to obfuscate and deny because all

1453
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:26,400
you really care about is is yourself and

1454
00:56:29,089 --> 00:56:27,540
even what's going to happen in the next

1455
00:56:30,829 --> 00:56:29,099
few Decades of your life maybe because

1456
00:56:32,510 --> 00:56:30,839
you have the assumption that all there

1457
00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:32,520
is is the next few Decades of this life

1458
00:56:38,089 --> 00:56:34,920
right so all these assumptions we bring

1459
00:56:39,530 --> 00:56:38,099
to the table and all of the hypocrisy we

1460
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,540
exercise and the way we think about

1461
00:56:43,549 --> 00:56:41,520
these matters and how it's different

1462
00:56:45,290 --> 00:56:43,559
when we're the ones that are in the

1463
00:56:47,450 --> 00:56:45,300
position that's not the top of the food

1464
00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:47,460
chain is is quite shocking when you

1465
00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:49,500
really think about it

1466
00:56:54,589 --> 00:56:52,380
well that makes me uncomfortable

1467
00:56:56,450 --> 00:56:54,599
um yeah sorry about that so mission

1468
00:56:58,910 --> 00:56:56,460
accomplished right that I think that

1469
00:57:01,250 --> 00:56:58,920
that's the point is that that thought

1470
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:01,260
exercise should make you uncomfortable

1471
00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:04,079
we're asking the others to be better

1472
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:07,260
uh than we are ourselves are uh we're

1473
00:57:14,329 --> 00:57:11,640
asking uh an ethic of them that we

1474
00:57:15,650 --> 00:57:14,339
I suppose in some ways like aspire to

1475
00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:15,660
but don't actually hold ourselves

1476
00:57:20,329 --> 00:57:17,940
accountable to

1477
00:57:22,010 --> 00:57:20,339
um and so we kind of easily to take the

1478
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:22,020
position well they're you know they're

1479
00:57:25,069 --> 00:57:23,400
Advanced they're doing these things that

1480
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:25,079
we can't do they're this technology that

1481
00:57:30,589 --> 00:57:28,140
we don't have and so therefore their

1482
00:57:33,470 --> 00:57:30,599
ethic is more advanced than ours they've

1483
00:57:37,790 --> 00:57:33,480
they've uh jettisoned the horrible

1484
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:37,800
practices that that we observe uh and we

1485
00:57:42,109 --> 00:57:40,380
and they're just more evolved and so we

1486
00:57:44,569 --> 00:57:42,119
don't have to worry about them doing

1487
00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:44,579
terrible things to us because you know

1488
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:46,740
we're sentient and you know they're

1489
00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:48,660
sentient we're kind of Pals in that way

1490
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,300
right we're on the same sort of level uh

1491
00:57:55,790 --> 00:57:53,760
it's just it's a it's a weird

1492
00:57:58,910 --> 00:57:55,800
it's a it's a kind of wish fulfillment

1493
00:58:02,270 --> 00:57:58,920
in a way like if you're pondering that

1494
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:02,280
the the power dynamic

1495
00:58:06,530 --> 00:58:04,800
like that's what you would prefer right

1496
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:06,540
you would prefer that they would be

1497
00:58:11,089 --> 00:58:09,359
really nice and and not mess with us in

1498
00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:11,099
the same way that we mess with other

1499
00:58:15,770 --> 00:58:12,900
things

1500
00:58:18,170 --> 00:58:15,780
um but you know realistically that

1501
00:58:20,510 --> 00:58:18,180
doesn't make any sense

1502
00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:20,520
um and you know and I don't want to

1503
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:23,339
sound too sort of gloom and doom here

1504
00:58:28,730 --> 00:58:25,920
because you know from my perspective and

1505
00:58:29,390 --> 00:58:28,740
I think you you share this perspective

1506
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:29,400
um

1507
00:58:35,150 --> 00:58:32,880
the the way things are the way reality

1508
00:58:38,510 --> 00:58:35,160
truly is

1509
00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:38,520
um it's not like uh we're it we're just

1510
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:39,900
subtracting you know through this

1511
00:58:44,510 --> 00:58:42,240
process like if we're if if they're

1512
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:44,520
culling Humanity or whatever it is if

1513
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,380
they're doing bad things to us like it's

1514
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:48,480
just a net subtraction

1515
00:58:53,809 --> 00:58:51,660
um that there is uh you know kind of a

1516
00:58:56,089 --> 00:58:53,819
constant state of process a constant

1517
00:58:58,490 --> 00:58:56,099
state of development not only for

1518
00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:58,500
ourselves but for them for the cosmos

1519
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:01,680
like it's it's it's it's always ongoing

1520
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:04,440
and I think that that's if you if you

1521
00:59:10,250 --> 00:59:07,920
can adopt that perspective then it

1522
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:10,260
changes the way you relate to these

1523
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:12,960
kinds of behaviors it changes the way

1524
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:15,180
you relate to

1525
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,480
to to the apocalypse if you will

1526
00:59:21,710 --> 00:59:20,160
um you know to the end of your own life

1527
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:21,720
which is you know it's your personal

1528
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:24,180
apocalypse right it changes your

1529
00:59:28,609 --> 00:59:26,460
relationship to that and our religious

1530
00:59:30,289 --> 00:59:28,619
Traditions have really talked about this

1531
00:59:32,510 --> 00:59:30,299
for a long time you know that they've

1532
00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:32,520
tried to get us to think more broadly

1533
00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:35,880
about life and and our future and what

1534
00:59:42,349 --> 00:59:38,940
comes after our Life as We Know It And

1535
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:42,359
and to let that uh broader perspective

1536
00:59:46,910 --> 00:59:44,640
inform how we live

1537
00:59:49,609 --> 00:59:46,920
and I think that that's an important

1538
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,619
point to make here is that that you know

1539
00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:51,359
it's not just the end it's not not a

1540
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:53,160
period to the sentence and and we're

1541
00:59:57,530 --> 00:59:55,920
done you know we yes we we can we can

1542
00:59:59,630 --> 00:59:57,540
mourn the things that we might lose

1543
01:00:01,490 --> 00:59:59,640
including our own lives and you know all

1544
01:00:03,530 --> 01:00:01,500
the human civilization as we know it we

1545
01:00:07,069 --> 01:00:03,540
can certainly grieve that but we can

1546
01:00:08,690 --> 01:00:07,079
also celebrate the things that that will

1547
01:00:12,289 --> 01:00:08,700
come after that

1548
01:00:14,930 --> 01:00:12,299
not just for ourselves on our journey of

1549
01:00:16,910 --> 01:00:14,940
development but also the Journey of

1550
01:00:18,890 --> 01:00:16,920
these others who were involved in this

1551
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:18,900
process because it is a journey for them

1552
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:22,079
as well is a learning moment for them as

1553
01:00:25,730 --> 01:00:23,520
well

1554
01:00:27,170 --> 01:00:25,740
right and and before we we sort of

1555
01:00:29,210 --> 01:00:27,180
really delve into that part because

1556
01:00:31,069 --> 01:00:29,220
that's sort of like at the larger Cosmic

1557
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:31,079
scale which I do want us to get to

1558
01:00:35,450 --> 01:00:33,599
just want to make a couple points

1559
01:00:37,490 --> 01:00:35,460
in terms of what's happening in the here

1560
01:00:40,250 --> 01:00:37,500
and now and even how to look at that

1561
01:00:43,069 --> 01:00:40,260
differently right so again some people

1562
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:43,079
look at the notion of these others

1563
01:00:48,650 --> 01:00:46,559
coming in genetically uh doing things to

1564
01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:48,660
us right without ever asking right

1565
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:51,059
that's often what is said right

1566
01:00:58,609 --> 01:00:54,000
and yet again we we do that right we we

1567
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:58,619
will try to you know if there's a

1568
01:01:03,230 --> 01:01:01,200
a hornet species or a wasp species

1569
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:03,240
that's that's particularly violent and

1570
01:01:07,730 --> 01:01:06,119
aggressive we will breed it with a less

1571
01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:07,740
aggressive one right so we eventually

1572
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:09,660
change the behavior of the entire

1573
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:11,520
species right

1574
01:01:17,329 --> 01:01:14,160
now you look at modern Homo sapiens

1575
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:17,339
sapien we are a very still aggressive

1576
01:01:22,490 --> 01:01:20,400
species right we still are in some ways

1577
01:01:23,870 --> 01:01:22,500
of cancer to the Earth right do we can

1578
01:01:26,329 --> 01:01:23,880
we really say

1579
01:01:27,950 --> 01:01:26,339
in Anonymous assessment that we are

1580
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:27,960
leaving the Earth in a better place than

1581
01:01:31,250 --> 01:01:30,240
we found it I don't see how any of us

1582
01:01:34,730 --> 01:01:31,260
can answer that question in the

1583
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:34,740
affirmative right so for these others

1584
01:01:40,190 --> 01:01:37,920
maybe the the less invasive

1585
01:01:42,410 --> 01:01:40,200
way to deal with this up until now has

1586
01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:42,420
been rather than resetting the entire

1587
01:01:47,930 --> 01:01:45,000
Enterprise right rather than just wiping

1588
01:01:51,770 --> 01:01:47,940
out that wasp species right that's too

1589
01:01:53,569 --> 01:01:51,780
aggressive and is causing Havoc you go

1590
01:01:55,849 --> 01:01:53,579
in and you try to tweak it right you try

1591
01:01:57,530 --> 01:01:55,859
to you try to breed out some of the

1592
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,540
aggression right so it changes his

1593
01:02:03,230 --> 01:01:59,520
behavior that way it can continue to

1594
01:02:04,970 --> 01:02:03,240
exist it can grow but it it also

1595
01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:04,980
mitigates some of the damage it's doing

1596
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:07,500
to the larger environment right and you

1597
01:02:10,609 --> 01:02:08,880
can see the very same thing about what's

1598
01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:10,619
happening with us in fact I would say

1599
01:02:16,490 --> 01:02:13,260
that's what's happening with us that

1600
01:02:19,130 --> 01:02:16,500
we've talked before about this notion of

1601
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,140
them sometimes being depicted as having

1602
01:02:25,069 --> 01:02:21,599
less of an emotional quality right they

1603
01:02:26,510 --> 01:02:25,079
seem less emotive in general and there

1604
01:02:28,970 --> 01:02:26,520
seems to be evidence that that's partly

1605
01:02:32,510 --> 01:02:28,980
because they over time recognize that

1606
01:02:35,930 --> 01:02:32,520
some of our you know emotive flare-ups

1607
01:02:38,450 --> 01:02:35,940
and are part of what causes the worst of

1608
01:02:40,130 --> 01:02:38,460
us right in terms of our Behavior so

1609
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:40,140
they they sort of walk the trajectory

1610
01:02:43,549 --> 01:02:41,760
where they sort of bred that out of

1611
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:43,559
themselves and like you said because you

1612
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:44,400
can

1613
01:02:48,530 --> 01:02:46,740
you make progress sometimes it's two

1614
01:02:50,569 --> 01:02:48,540
step forward one step back right we

1615
01:02:53,569 --> 01:02:50,579
shouldn't assume it's all positive and

1616
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:53,579
that positive so there's some suggestion

1617
01:02:57,289 --> 01:02:55,680
that's some of them even recognize they

1618
01:03:00,170 --> 01:02:57,299
lost something important when they did

1619
01:03:01,789 --> 01:03:00,180
that right um becoming Vulcans is not

1620
01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:01,799
the ultimate right there's something to

1621
01:03:05,930 --> 01:03:03,660
this notion of Spock who has a bit of

1622
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:05,940
both right and there's some suggestion

1623
01:03:10,430 --> 01:03:07,440
that partly what they're doing is trying

1624
01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:10,440
to amend and repair some of the the

1625
01:03:14,329 --> 01:03:12,299
trajectory that they actually regret now

1626
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,339
they recognize they lost something

1627
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,799
but in saying that we can't deny the

1628
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:18,720
fact that hey getting rid of some of our

1629
01:03:22,970 --> 01:03:21,359
most aggressive tendencies could be a

1630
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:22,980
good thing would be a good thing I don't

1631
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:25,200
know how you can argue with that now I

1632
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:26,940
understand that it's uncomfortable when

1633
01:03:30,829 --> 01:03:28,559
you say but I don't remember signing a

1634
01:03:32,690 --> 01:03:30,839
contract nobody like contacted me I

1635
01:03:33,890 --> 01:03:32,700
didn't get an email you know this just

1636
01:03:36,349 --> 01:03:33,900
happened

1637
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:36,359
I totally get it right but really again

1638
01:03:42,289 --> 01:03:39,420
the shock to the system there is that we

1639
01:03:44,990 --> 01:03:42,299
are on the food chain just like the rest

1640
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:45,000
of the Animal Kingdom right and so when

1641
01:03:48,770 --> 01:03:46,920
a higher species comes and does this

1642
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,780
maybe it doesn't occur to them the

1643
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:50,400
simulate doesn't occur to us to send an

1644
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:53,760
email to you know the the wolf species

1645
01:03:58,609 --> 01:03:56,400
where you know changing in some way now

1646
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:58,619
I'm also not trying to completely excuse

1647
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:00,960
the behavior or say that wouldn't it be

1648
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:02,880
nice if they communicated sure it would

1649
01:04:08,030 --> 01:04:05,280
right I think that like you've hinted at

1650
01:04:10,130 --> 01:04:08,040
they have growth to make as well the

1651
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:10,140
evidence I've seen even in some of the

1652
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,960
interaction with the Grays is that they

1653
01:04:17,690 --> 01:04:14,880
have aspects of themselves that are

1654
01:04:20,210 --> 01:04:17,700
surprisingly different than us and they

1655
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:20,220
have a lack of understanding of emotion

1656
01:04:23,569 --> 01:04:21,839
and

1657
01:04:26,270 --> 01:04:23,579
um some of our even our sexual nature

1658
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:26,280
which which plays into why they show

1659
01:04:29,930 --> 01:04:27,839
such an interest in that even in the

1660
01:04:32,990 --> 01:04:29,940
experiments they run and it often I

1661
01:04:34,970 --> 01:04:33,000
think doesn't occur to them uh that that

1662
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,980
maybe impacts us emotionally in a way

1663
01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:36,960
that would be better if they did it

1664
01:04:40,549 --> 01:04:38,339
differently but the reason they don't is

1665
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:40,559
because they don't have that capacity so

1666
01:04:45,049 --> 01:04:43,200
they don't they can relate right so part

1667
01:04:46,910 --> 01:04:45,059
of the future of our interaction with

1668
01:04:48,589 --> 01:04:46,920
these other intelligences will be but

1669
01:04:50,750 --> 01:04:48,599
learning about these things about each

1670
01:04:53,450 --> 01:04:50,760
other right and part of the even the

1671
01:04:54,829 --> 01:04:53,460
task with hybrids is to be able to serve

1672
01:04:56,750 --> 01:04:54,839
as an ambassador between the two

1673
01:04:58,250 --> 01:04:56,760
different species and help each other

1674
01:05:01,190 --> 01:04:58,260
understand each other because they have

1675
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,200
a bit of both like Spock again right

1676
01:05:05,329 --> 01:05:03,359
so these are things to keep in mind now

1677
01:05:08,210 --> 01:05:05,339
we can go in a minute to the the bigger

1678
01:05:10,670 --> 01:05:08,220
Cosmic picture and how even the idea of

1679
01:05:12,410 --> 01:05:10,680
resetting a civilization maybe isn't as

1680
01:05:14,990 --> 01:05:12,420
bad as it first seems which I know will

1681
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:15,000
sound outlandish to people but um but

1682
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,319
first I wanted to just point out again

1683
01:05:20,329 --> 01:05:18,000
some of the ways that even the tweaking

1684
01:05:21,289 --> 01:05:20,339
they're doing could be for a greater

1685
01:05:22,970 --> 01:05:21,299
good

1686
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:22,980
yeah

1687
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,079
um and and look I I

1688
01:05:32,510 --> 01:05:30,480
romantically I like the idea that we

1689
01:05:35,630 --> 01:05:32,520
could uh you know kind of work things

1690
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,640
out right I mean just like the uh I'm

1691
01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:37,680
sure the chickens the chicken you know

1692
01:05:43,370 --> 01:05:40,200
Farm or whatever would like to work

1693
01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:43,380
things out with with their you know uh

1694
01:05:47,569 --> 01:05:45,900
overseers and not have to be slaughtered

1695
01:05:49,250 --> 01:05:47,579
for food right like we just talked this

1696
01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:49,260
through and it may not have to kill us

1697
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,220
off here

1698
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:51,839
uh there's some other way we can go

1699
01:05:56,210 --> 01:05:54,240
about this

1700
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:56,220
um so yeah that that that's that's very

1701
01:05:58,609 --> 01:05:57,960
appealing to me

1702
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,619
um

1703
01:06:03,890 --> 01:06:00,240
but

1704
01:06:06,170 --> 01:06:03,900
you know I I regardless of how we want

1705
01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:06,180
to look at this I think you know we'd be

1706
01:06:11,569 --> 01:06:08,460
remiss if we just weren't honest with

1707
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,579
folks that that and and recognizing how

1708
01:06:17,089 --> 01:06:13,920
difficult it is to kind of uh

1709
01:06:19,309 --> 01:06:17,099
internalize this right it's difficult to

1710
01:06:21,349 --> 01:06:19,319
hear this kind of

1711
01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:21,359
conversation

1712
01:06:26,569 --> 01:06:24,119
and not come away with a lot of

1713
01:06:28,910 --> 01:06:26,579
different feelings you know like uh

1714
01:06:30,849 --> 01:06:28,920
grief anger

1715
01:06:33,349 --> 01:06:30,859
frustration

1716
01:06:34,970 --> 01:06:33,359
those are total normal rate you know

1717
01:06:36,770 --> 01:06:34,980
normal reactions

1718
01:06:39,230 --> 01:06:36,780
um you know I'm thinking here too about

1719
01:06:42,170 --> 01:06:39,240
when Elizondo used the word somber how

1720
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:42,180
much you know sort of

1721
01:06:46,910 --> 01:06:44,460
air time that took in the podcast

1722
01:06:49,309 --> 01:06:46,920
circuit and everywhere else what does he

1723
01:06:51,770 --> 01:06:49,319
mean by that you know they well I mean

1724
01:06:54,349 --> 01:06:51,780
could could in part be some of these

1725
01:06:56,930 --> 01:06:54,359
things you know that if not the big

1726
01:07:00,170 --> 01:06:56,940
picture at least the reality of some of

1727
01:07:02,270 --> 01:07:00,180
these uh smaller interactions that have

1728
01:07:04,370 --> 01:07:02,280
taken place you know where where human

1729
01:07:06,589 --> 01:07:04,380
beings have absolutely been taken

1730
01:07:08,930 --> 01:07:06,599
against their will and things have been

1731
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:08,940
done to them and and they live with that

1732
01:07:16,010 --> 01:07:11,280
trauma and they had absolutely zero

1733
01:07:17,809 --> 01:07:16,020
recourse uh to to heal from that

1734
01:07:20,270 --> 01:07:17,819
um not only from the others that took

1735
01:07:22,910 --> 01:07:20,280
them but also from the society which

1736
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:22,920
entirely rejected them uh and what they

1737
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:25,920
uh felt you know were courageous in

1738
01:07:31,549 --> 01:07:28,799
sharing that really took place you know

1739
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:31,559
we we they essentially been uh

1740
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:33,599
traumatized twice you know not only by

1741
01:07:37,329 --> 01:07:36,000
these others but by their fellow human

1742
01:07:39,950 --> 01:07:37,339
beings

1743
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:39,960
so one thing to point out there is that

1744
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:41,760
it's a mixed bag right and I think it's

1745
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:44,400
the mixed bag nature of this that

1746
01:07:48,770 --> 01:07:46,799
confounds people because one hand yes

1747
01:07:50,329 --> 01:07:48,780
they're not sending an email you didn't

1748
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:50,339
get a doctor's note saying don't forget

1749
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,079
you know we got the augmentation going

1750
01:07:56,450 --> 01:07:54,720
on you know Tuesday night uh that

1751
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:56,460
doesn't happen right

1752
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:59,280
um what happens is just suddenly these

1753
01:08:03,529 --> 01:08:01,200
beings show up in your you know suddenly

1754
01:08:05,809 --> 01:08:03,539
maybe in a on a craft somewhere and

1755
01:08:07,309 --> 01:08:05,819
lying down on a table and some

1756
01:08:08,329 --> 01:08:07,319
telepathic message just told you to get

1757
01:08:10,370 --> 01:08:08,339
up on the table and you don't even know

1758
01:08:11,569 --> 01:08:10,380
how to disobey it because it's a thought

1759
01:08:12,829 --> 01:08:11,579
in your head no different than an

1760
01:08:15,470 --> 01:08:12,839
Impulse you might have to go to the

1761
01:08:17,209 --> 01:08:15,480
bathroom right same sort of notion so on

1762
01:08:19,610 --> 01:08:17,219
the one hand that feels like such a loss

1763
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,620
of agency and sovereignty right

1764
01:08:23,450 --> 01:08:21,839
but on the other hand sometimes those

1765
01:08:25,490 --> 01:08:23,460
same people that talk about those kind

1766
01:08:27,229 --> 01:08:25,500
of traumatizing events come back and

1767
01:08:29,930 --> 01:08:27,239
find that they start having precognitive

1768
01:08:31,130 --> 01:08:29,940
dreams or they can hear the thoughts of

1769
01:08:32,630 --> 01:08:31,140
other people and notice that their

1770
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:32,640
mouths are not moving right they're

1771
01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:35,759
actually becoming telepathic so what we

1772
01:08:40,669 --> 01:08:37,920
don't usually hear is kind of a dumbing

1773
01:08:43,249 --> 01:08:40,679
Down process right it's not a

1774
01:08:45,650 --> 01:08:43,259
um reverse augmentation right it's it's

1775
01:08:47,410 --> 01:08:45,660
actually augmenting our intelligence

1776
01:08:50,030 --> 01:08:47,420
usually augmenting our abilities

1777
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:50,040
tweaking us in a direction of making us

1778
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:51,960
more

1779
01:08:57,470 --> 01:08:54,000
um you know empowered in some ways to

1780
01:08:58,970 --> 01:08:57,480
interact with reality in a way that you

1781
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:58,980
know is more

1782
01:09:05,930 --> 01:09:00,960
um

1783
01:09:08,570 --> 01:09:05,940
has more robust ability and capacity

1784
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:08,580
than we used to have and also in a

1785
01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:10,080
direction that hopefully will make us

1786
01:09:13,550 --> 01:09:12,359
interact with each other differently and

1787
01:09:16,490 --> 01:09:13,560
with the surrounding environment

1788
01:09:18,349 --> 01:09:16,500
differently right so I think both are in

1789
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:18,359
play here yes would it be nice in the

1790
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:20,400
future to have some sort of Interest

1791
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,440
species dialogue where we can help them

1792
01:09:26,689 --> 01:09:24,420
understand that you know there's ways

1793
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:26,699
you could do this differently but also

1794
01:09:30,590 --> 01:09:29,040
recognize that the the main thrusts of

1795
01:09:32,510 --> 01:09:30,600
what they're trying to do is in our best

1796
01:09:34,610 --> 01:09:32,520
interest right so that that can

1797
01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:34,620
definitely happen right even for human

1798
01:09:37,789 --> 01:09:35,580
beings when you go to a different

1799
01:09:39,530 --> 01:09:37,799
culture sometimes you might offend that

1800
01:09:41,090 --> 01:09:39,540
culture ways you never intend it because

1801
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:41,100
you just don't understand the cultural

1802
01:09:44,809 --> 01:09:42,719
norms right

1803
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:44,819
you go to some parts of the world you

1804
01:09:48,229 --> 01:09:46,560
just don't shake shake somebody's hand

1805
01:09:49,849 --> 01:09:48,239
with a certain hand because that hand is

1806
01:09:51,709 --> 01:09:49,859
you know used for something else when

1807
01:09:53,930 --> 01:09:51,719
you have to go to the bathroom in some

1808
01:09:56,330 --> 01:09:53,940
parts of the world right so even if they

1809
01:09:58,430 --> 01:09:56,340
don't do that anymore right use their

1810
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:58,440
hand for that directly it's still part

1811
01:10:02,090 --> 01:10:00,239
of the culture that you just don't do it

1812
01:10:04,370 --> 01:10:02,100
it's a sign of disrespect if you don't

1813
01:10:06,830 --> 01:10:04,380
but you might violate that without ever

1814
01:10:09,530 --> 01:10:06,840
being aware of it right this can happen

1815
01:10:12,370 --> 01:10:09,540
even more so when the genetic makeup is

1816
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:12,380
different when the individualistic

1817
01:10:17,330 --> 01:10:14,820
motive nature that we have as human

1818
01:10:20,209 --> 01:10:17,340
beings is largely absent in some of

1819
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,219
these others right that creates issues

1820
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:22,080
right and some of them are also kind of

1821
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:23,760
like more like Androids right like

1822
01:10:27,709 --> 01:10:25,679
biological

1823
01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:27,719
um you know that they're kind of like

1824
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:30,960
this amalgam of biology and Android and

1825
01:10:33,890 --> 01:10:32,400
so that might have just never been part

1826
01:10:36,110 --> 01:10:33,900
of their programming right because why

1827
01:10:36,970 --> 01:10:36,120
would it be because that wasn't part of

1828
01:10:39,229 --> 01:10:36,980
the

1829
01:10:41,090 --> 01:10:39,239
intelligence or Consciousness or

1830
01:10:43,130 --> 01:10:41,100
experience of the beings that program

1831
01:10:44,510 --> 01:10:43,140
the Androids right so the same way that

1832
01:10:47,870 --> 01:10:44,520
we talk about

1833
01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:47,880
AI will ultimately still reflect our

1834
01:10:51,410 --> 01:10:49,380
Consciousness because we're the ones

1835
01:10:53,630 --> 01:10:51,420
programming it right in the same way

1836
01:10:55,070 --> 01:10:53,640
their AI their Androids have some of the

1837
01:10:58,910 --> 01:10:55,080
same things going on

1838
01:11:00,290 --> 01:10:58,920
and I'm even aware of situations where

1839
01:11:02,270 --> 01:11:00,300
I think I've talked about this before

1840
01:11:04,610 --> 01:11:02,280
where people who end up having hybrid

1841
01:11:06,169 --> 01:11:04,620
children are able to communicate to

1842
01:11:09,290 --> 01:11:06,179
those hybrid children who have a human

1843
01:11:11,870 --> 01:11:09,300
component and say hey could you speak to

1844
01:11:13,610 --> 01:11:11,880
the others the Grays and let them know

1845
01:11:15,890 --> 01:11:13,620
how this makes me feel when you suddenly

1846
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,900
show up you know without a warning in

1847
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:17,280
the middle of the night how much trauma

1848
01:11:22,310 --> 01:11:19,860
that causes and I've actually seen where

1849
01:11:25,310 --> 01:11:22,320
that's changed the behavior of the Grays

1850
01:11:27,770 --> 01:11:25,320
they literally change how they interact

1851
01:11:29,810 --> 01:11:27,780
once that becomes uh part of their

1852
01:11:31,490 --> 01:11:29,820
awareness because the hybrid is able to

1853
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:31,500
also communicate with them right so you

1854
01:11:36,169 --> 01:11:34,320
have this bridge of understanding so

1855
01:11:38,750 --> 01:11:36,179
I'm both not trying to romantic

1856
01:11:40,970 --> 01:11:38,760
romanticize this nor am I trying to

1857
01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:40,980
explain it away either you know like I

1858
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,980
think we do have room to grow here and

1859
01:11:47,390 --> 01:11:46,080
the interspecies relationship and

1860
01:11:50,450 --> 01:11:47,400
communication

1861
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:50,460
but also recognize that it's not black

1862
01:11:54,530 --> 01:11:52,080
or white that even when there's things

1863
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,540
that are absolutely traumatizing for

1864
01:11:59,330 --> 01:11:57,120
some people they can still be meant for

1865
01:12:02,030 --> 01:11:59,340
some greater good and I think we have to

1866
01:12:04,130 --> 01:12:02,040
keep both those things in mind uh when

1867
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:04,140
we consider the entire endeavor

1868
01:12:07,490 --> 01:12:05,159
yeah

1869
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:07,500
well one thing that I struggled with

1870
01:12:11,930 --> 01:12:10,020
um we've had conversations on this uh so

1871
01:12:13,790 --> 01:12:11,940
it might be worth getting into this a

1872
01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:13,800
little bit on the show

1873
01:12:20,750 --> 01:12:16,860
and that's this um

1874
01:12:23,450 --> 01:12:20,760
deep sense of loss that I have in when I

1875
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,460
was new to the topic and reading about

1876
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:25,199
the Grays you touched on some of their

1877
01:12:29,390 --> 01:12:27,600
characteristics and you know looking at

1878
01:12:31,490 --> 01:12:29,400
that and going oh I don't know that

1879
01:12:32,930 --> 01:12:31,500
doesn't sound like it's really Advanced

1880
01:12:34,250 --> 01:12:32,940
it sounds like we're kind of taking a

1881
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:34,260
step backward you know like it sounds

1882
01:12:40,910 --> 01:12:37,920
like we if that's our future we're we're

1883
01:12:42,830 --> 01:12:40,920
kind of less individualistic and more

1884
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:42,840
you know communitarian there's no

1885
01:12:46,430 --> 01:12:44,880
seemingly there's no art there's no

1886
01:12:48,410 --> 01:12:46,440
music you know whatever it is like it

1887
01:12:50,330 --> 01:12:48,420
seems like a pretty you know comedy it's

1888
01:12:53,390 --> 01:12:50,340
a pretty crummy place to be everybody's

1889
01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:53,400
literally gray with big eyes like it

1890
01:12:58,010 --> 01:12:56,580
sounds awful from my vantage point so

1891
01:13:01,850 --> 01:12:58,020
you know I wonder if you could speak a

1892
01:13:03,950 --> 01:13:01,860
little bit to our notion of one that

1893
01:13:08,090 --> 01:13:03,960
first of all that feeling but also our

1894
01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:08,100
notion of of time and trajectory and uh

1895
01:13:14,510 --> 01:13:10,500
you know how that comes into play with

1896
01:13:18,530 --> 01:13:16,430
well I think one of the things we talked

1897
01:13:19,370 --> 01:13:18,540
about before we went on the air was this

1898
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:19,380
um

1899
01:13:24,830 --> 01:13:23,040
this way people tend to absolutize these

1900
01:13:27,229 --> 01:13:24,840
Notions they say either

1901
01:13:29,689 --> 01:13:27,239
they're individual minded like us and

1902
01:13:32,450 --> 01:13:29,699
they value they value uh you know human

1903
01:13:34,370 --> 01:13:32,460
rights and in other terms uh individual

1904
01:13:36,110 --> 01:13:34,380
rights or they're a hive mind and

1905
01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:36,120
they're just unthinking you know like a

1906
01:13:39,649 --> 01:13:37,679
bee Colony or something right they don't

1907
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,659
they have no notion of what's best the

1908
01:13:43,490 --> 01:13:41,280
best interest of an individual B they

1909
01:13:44,830 --> 01:13:43,500
just do whatever serves the colony and

1910
01:13:46,970 --> 01:13:44,840
we don't like that notion right

1911
01:13:48,530 --> 01:13:46,980
especially as Americans where we have

1912
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:48,540
this kind of rugged individualism as

1913
01:13:55,010 --> 01:13:50,940
part of our you know cultural ethic

1914
01:13:57,050 --> 01:13:55,020
but my experience is that the

1915
01:13:58,790 --> 01:13:57,060
again I also want to give my usual

1916
01:14:01,490 --> 01:13:58,800
disclaimer there's different groups of

1917
01:14:03,050 --> 01:14:01,500
these others we don't make want to paint

1918
01:14:05,090 --> 01:14:03,060
the Grays as if they're just one group

1919
01:14:07,370 --> 01:14:05,100
you know you mentioned they're all gray

1920
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:07,380
but when there's no monotone in terms of

1921
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:08,880
their

1922
01:14:15,530 --> 01:14:13,199
you know

1923
01:14:16,729 --> 01:14:15,540
it's it's there's a wide variety right

1924
01:14:18,350 --> 01:14:16,739
some people have very positive

1925
01:14:20,090 --> 01:14:18,360
experiences with groups of Grays other

1926
01:14:21,709 --> 01:14:20,100
people not so much

1927
01:14:23,810 --> 01:14:21,719
but all that said

1928
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:23,820
what I think the literature points to

1929
01:14:29,390 --> 01:14:26,400
and some of my own experiences is that

1930
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:29,400
they still have individual Personalities

1931
01:14:32,450 --> 01:14:31,260
in a way right not so much the Android

1932
01:14:33,890 --> 01:14:32,460
types but I'm talking about the other

1933
01:14:36,110 --> 01:14:33,900
ones

1934
01:14:38,990 --> 01:14:36,120
um have individual personalities but

1935
01:14:41,630 --> 01:14:39,000
they can also connect in with this

1936
01:14:44,270 --> 01:14:41,640
larger grit this larger Matrix where

1937
01:14:46,729 --> 01:14:44,280
they can also sense the

1938
01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:46,739
the consciousness of the larger whole

1939
01:14:49,550 --> 01:14:48,540
right and we you and I talked before

1940
01:14:52,070 --> 01:14:49,560
about

1941
01:14:53,870 --> 01:14:52,080
Donald Hoffman's notion of conscious

1942
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:53,880
agents right and you can take

1943
01:14:58,610 --> 01:14:56,400
one binary or one individual conscious

1944
01:15:00,590 --> 01:14:58,620
agent as a human being but you put them

1945
01:15:02,209 --> 01:15:00,600
in interaction with another human being

1946
01:15:04,130 --> 01:15:02,219
and you now have a new conscious agent

1947
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,140
that arises from that you can keep

1948
01:15:07,130 --> 01:15:05,760
scaling that up until you get to a

1949
01:15:09,290 --> 01:15:07,140
bridge eventually the cosmic

1950
01:15:11,209 --> 01:15:09,300
intelligence which in some ways is the

1951
01:15:13,610 --> 01:15:11,219
sum total of all conscious activity

1952
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:13,620
across the history of the cosmos you

1953
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:19,550
that's what I'm saying goes on with

1954
01:15:24,410 --> 01:15:21,600
these ones that they they both have some

1955
01:15:27,410 --> 01:15:24,420
individuality but they also can can plug

1956
01:15:29,149 --> 01:15:27,420
into an act from what's in the best

1957
01:15:31,550 --> 01:15:29,159
interest of the whole which is a good

1958
01:15:34,189 --> 01:15:31,560
thing if we could do that more if we had

1959
01:15:37,610 --> 01:15:34,199
more like felt understanding not just

1960
01:15:39,169 --> 01:15:37,620
conceptual but felt understanding of why

1961
01:15:41,090 --> 01:15:39,179
certain action on an individual level

1962
01:15:42,950 --> 01:15:41,100
would actually hurt us as a species or

1963
01:15:44,090 --> 01:15:42,960
hurt the planet or the larger

1964
01:15:46,490 --> 01:15:44,100
environment we're a part of the

1965
01:15:48,410 --> 01:15:46,500
biosphere we would probably change our

1966
01:15:50,689 --> 01:15:48,420
Behavior so this is a good thing I think

1967
01:15:53,209 --> 01:15:50,699
we do want to move towards more of this

1968
01:15:55,189 --> 01:15:53,219
understanding I think that's partly what

1969
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:55,199
they're even trying to augment us

1970
01:15:59,570 --> 01:15:56,880
towards right they're trying to they're

1971
01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:59,580
trying to make more porous the boundary

1972
01:16:03,470 --> 01:16:01,679
between us and them and us and each

1973
01:16:06,590 --> 01:16:03,480
other and us and everything else in

1974
01:16:08,270 --> 01:16:06,600
reality so that it changes the calculus

1975
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:08,280
for how we make decisions because right

1976
01:16:14,689 --> 01:16:11,040
now we have a trading uh you know a

1977
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:14,699
startlingly narrow range of parameters

1978
01:16:18,290 --> 01:16:16,320
by which we make decisions about what's

1979
01:16:20,330 --> 01:16:18,300
good right what's in the best interest

1980
01:16:22,189 --> 01:16:20,340
it's really that those parameters that

1981
01:16:25,610 --> 01:16:22,199
need to be expanded then we will just by

1982
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:25,620
our very nature of that change we will

1983
01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:27,360
alter how we make decisions which will

1984
01:16:31,610 --> 01:16:29,940
be in the best interest of the whole so

1985
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:31,620
these are things to keep in mind you

1986
01:16:36,649 --> 01:16:35,040
know it's uh like you say

1987
01:16:38,570 --> 01:16:36,659
when you first hear some of the stories

1988
01:16:41,390 --> 01:16:38,580
you sometimes notice all the stark

1989
01:16:43,970 --> 01:16:41,400
difference and it seems like a net loss

1990
01:16:46,010 --> 01:16:43,980
right but again I've even

1991
01:16:48,169 --> 01:16:46,020
come across experiences where the graves

1992
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:48,179
actually show curiosity right I think

1993
01:16:52,729 --> 01:16:50,640
part of their mishandling a lot is

1994
01:16:55,130 --> 01:16:52,739
sometimes still motivated by curiosity

1995
01:16:57,070 --> 01:16:55,140
actually so they still do have these

1996
01:16:59,390 --> 01:16:57,080
these things that we would consider

1997
01:17:02,270 --> 01:16:59,400
valuable right and they're not just

1998
01:17:04,370 --> 01:17:02,280
these unthinking automatons that uh that

1999
01:17:05,870 --> 01:17:04,380
we might paint them to be so

2000
01:17:08,330 --> 01:17:05,880
which shouldn't be surprising to us

2001
01:17:10,130 --> 01:17:08,340
right whenever you encounter for

2002
01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:10,140
instance different cultures right um

2003
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:12,000
when you look at Humanity historically

2004
01:17:16,610 --> 01:17:14,880
we tended to stereotype groups at first

2005
01:17:18,590 --> 01:17:16,620
right and said oh they're all like this

2006
01:17:19,850 --> 01:17:18,600
right and then you actually meet some

2007
01:17:21,530 --> 01:17:19,860
people from that culture and you go

2008
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:21,540
actually there's a lot more you know

2009
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:23,640
diversity than we first first realized

2010
01:17:27,070 --> 01:17:25,620
and it's usually our Poverty of

2011
01:17:30,110 --> 01:17:27,080
understanding

2012
01:17:31,610 --> 01:17:30,120
that that makes us group people together

2013
01:17:33,830 --> 01:17:31,620
that way well I think the same thing

2014
01:17:36,310 --> 01:17:33,840
will happen eventually in this kind of

2015
01:17:38,689 --> 01:17:36,320
inter-species process too

2016
01:17:40,010 --> 01:17:38,699
and and perhaps two one thing that

2017
01:17:42,830 --> 01:17:40,020
you've touched on

2018
01:17:45,169 --> 01:17:42,840
that this makes me think about is the

2019
01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:45,179
kind of imprinting idea that there is

2020
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:46,800
the there's a common

2021
01:17:51,850 --> 01:17:48,300
uh

2022
01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:51,860
Heritage or Legacy or connectivity

2023
01:17:58,970 --> 01:17:55,920
between you who we are as Humanity to

2024
01:18:01,729 --> 01:17:58,980
who these others are uh even though that

2025
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:01,739
they may look very different from us

2026
01:18:07,850 --> 01:18:05,040
um there there might be some several

2027
01:18:11,330 --> 01:18:07,860
things that we we share in common

2028
01:18:13,970 --> 01:18:11,340
um that that are easily relatable

2029
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:13,980
um and and let's not forget as well that

2030
01:18:20,030 --> 01:18:16,080
one of the most common types that have

2031
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:20,040
been experienced in an experiencer

2032
01:18:25,550 --> 01:18:23,040
anecdotes or stories or the human types

2033
01:18:28,430 --> 01:18:25,560
you know the just like humans and I

2034
01:18:31,070 --> 01:18:28,440
watched uh James on doley did a super

2035
01:18:32,990 --> 01:18:31,080
cut of all these different uh you know

2036
01:18:35,810 --> 01:18:33,000
they're living on this planet kinds of

2037
01:18:36,530 --> 01:18:35,820
stories from different individuals and

2038
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:36,540
um

2039
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:38,400
you know that was really really powerful

2040
01:18:46,430 --> 01:18:42,000
and it makes you think a lot harder

2041
01:18:49,070 --> 01:18:46,440
about the uh the Human family uh what

2042
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,080
makes us human the things that we might

2043
01:18:54,169 --> 01:18:51,600
be holding on to that are actually

2044
01:18:57,050 --> 01:18:54,179
getting in our own way

2045
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:57,060
um and and how the experience might be

2046
01:19:02,450 --> 01:19:00,239
way more expansive than we want to to

2047
01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:02,460
than we can imagine it being uh but

2048
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:04,980
we're so kind of used to Clinging On to

2049
01:19:09,050 --> 01:19:06,780
things that we're comfortable holding on

2050
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:09,060
to but we can't imagine a war without

2051
01:19:12,229 --> 01:19:10,560
them but the world without them might be

2052
01:19:13,970 --> 01:19:12,239
far better

2053
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:13,980
absolutely

2054
01:19:18,050 --> 01:19:15,840
I think yeah I remember C.S Lewis used

2055
01:19:20,330 --> 01:19:18,060
to talk about that when people you know

2056
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:20,340
are are sort of like pigs that like like

2057
01:19:25,010 --> 01:19:23,040
the muck and they they dread ever losing

2058
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:25,020
the muck right and to us we go well boy

2059
01:19:29,810 --> 01:19:26,400
it's just muck why would you want that

2060
01:19:31,850 --> 01:19:29,820
but to a higher species or to a another

2061
01:19:33,290 --> 01:19:31,860
sort of dimensional level of reality

2062
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:33,300
that's kind of how they might look at

2063
01:19:38,390 --> 01:19:35,520
the things that we cling to and and you

2064
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:38,400
know are so uh you know focused on not

2065
01:19:42,050 --> 01:19:40,260
losing

2066
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:42,060
the last thing I sort of want to touch

2067
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:43,920
on here that we can sort of get into the

2068
01:19:47,810 --> 01:19:46,080
last 10 minutes here or so is

2069
01:19:50,810 --> 01:19:47,820
because I know we intended to get here

2070
01:19:52,850 --> 01:19:50,820
as well is that the the cosmic calculus

2071
01:19:55,610 --> 01:19:52,860
right around why this might be happening

2072
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:55,620
and why there might even be a situation

2073
01:19:59,689 --> 01:19:58,080
we're in now where you know we're in a

2074
01:20:02,510 --> 01:19:59,699
major turning point in our civilization

2075
01:20:06,350 --> 01:20:02,520
right and there may be a couple options

2076
01:20:09,410 --> 01:20:06,360
on the table one is that we we wake up

2077
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:09,420
and change the way we we do reality the

2078
01:20:14,030 --> 01:20:11,760
way we run our civilization the way we

2079
01:20:15,950 --> 01:20:14,040
conduct our Affairs both with each other

2080
01:20:17,209 --> 01:20:15,960
and with animal species in the planet

2081
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:17,219
and whatnot

2082
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:21,360
or maybe a reset is is in play uh kind

2083
01:20:25,790 --> 01:20:23,280
of like what maybe happened 10 12 000

2084
01:20:27,530 --> 01:20:25,800
years ago that we see some evidence for

2085
01:20:30,169 --> 01:20:27,540
and what I would want to say to people

2086
01:20:31,850 --> 01:20:30,179
here is that

2087
01:20:33,649 --> 01:20:31,860
again I think we need to get beyond our

2088
01:20:36,590 --> 01:20:33,659
narrow thinking because

2089
01:20:38,510 --> 01:20:36,600
we are going to reiterate no matter what

2090
01:20:40,610 --> 01:20:38,520
happens whether you you know live a nice

2091
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:40,620
full life get to 90 or 100 and then die

2092
01:20:44,270 --> 01:20:42,960
and move on you're gonna have a

2093
01:20:45,830 --> 01:20:44,280
different iteration then and your

2094
01:20:48,050 --> 01:20:45,840
Consciousness will again have an

2095
01:20:50,990 --> 01:20:48,060
opportunity to grow and I would suggest

2096
01:20:53,630 --> 01:20:51,000
to you that part of the the universal

2097
01:20:55,790 --> 01:20:53,640
architecture is that you are shuffled

2098
01:20:58,610 --> 01:20:55,800
around into the next situation that will

2099
01:21:01,189 --> 01:20:58,620
be the most conducive to your growth and

2100
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:01,199
whatever lessons are really the most

2101
01:21:03,890 --> 01:21:02,820
significant for you to learn that's the

2102
01:21:05,990 --> 01:21:03,900
kind of scenario you'll be put into

2103
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:06,000
right uh

2104
01:21:09,290 --> 01:21:07,679
and so that's going to happen regardless

2105
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:09,300
whether it's saying you know you live 90

2106
01:21:13,550 --> 01:21:12,239
100 years and then you die or even if

2107
01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:13,560
there needs to be some sort of

2108
01:21:18,350 --> 01:21:15,900
civilization level reset

2109
01:21:20,030 --> 01:21:18,360
then same thing you know people will be

2110
01:21:22,030 --> 01:21:20,040
moved into different iterations maybe

2111
01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:22,040
even different civilizations different

2112
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:25,020
physiological forms right

2113
01:21:29,930 --> 01:21:27,600
that will both serve the individual

2114
01:21:32,990 --> 01:21:29,940
Consciousness that's growing as well as

2115
01:21:34,490 --> 01:21:33,000
serve the larger biosphere when I say

2116
01:21:36,830 --> 01:21:34,500
biosphere I don't just mean the planet

2117
01:21:39,649 --> 01:21:36,840
here I mean like the cosmic biosphere

2118
01:21:41,630 --> 01:21:39,659
right because we are a civilization now

2119
01:21:42,830 --> 01:21:41,640
on the cusp of going out into space you

2120
01:21:44,330 --> 01:21:42,840
and I have talked about this in our

2121
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:44,340
private conversations

2122
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:48,719
you know it's one thing to let a uh like

2123
01:21:53,390 --> 01:21:51,300
we talked about for instance if a major

2124
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:53,400
Ebola outbreak happens right in one part

2125
01:21:56,990 --> 01:21:54,900
of the world or some imagine some sort

2126
01:21:59,870 --> 01:21:57,000
of virus even worse than that right and

2127
01:22:02,990 --> 01:21:59,880
it's so virulent and it's so deadly that

2128
01:22:05,870 --> 01:22:03,000
sometimes you know civilizations have to

2129
01:22:08,990 --> 01:22:05,880
make a decision we are better new king

2130
01:22:11,149 --> 01:22:09,000
or firebombing that city than taking the

2131
01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:11,159
risk of that virus could get out and

2132
01:22:14,630 --> 01:22:13,260
kill hundreds of thousands or millions

2133
01:22:16,669 --> 01:22:14,640
of people right

2134
01:22:18,830 --> 01:22:16,679
in the same way you have to look at our

2135
01:22:20,450 --> 01:22:18,840
civilization and realize we are now

2136
01:22:22,970 --> 01:22:20,460
entering an age where we are getting

2137
01:22:24,530 --> 01:22:22,980
ready to colonize Mars right and I

2138
01:22:27,229 --> 01:22:24,540
already brought up the notion that the

2139
01:22:29,149 --> 01:22:27,239
Earth actually is a being right it the

2140
01:22:30,590 --> 01:22:29,159
Gaia spirit's a real thing part of I

2141
01:22:33,410 --> 01:22:30,600
think what brought

2142
01:22:36,410 --> 01:22:33,420
these others to us now and part of what

2143
01:22:38,990 --> 01:22:36,420
the situation we're in now is because

2144
01:22:40,910 --> 01:22:39,000
they also consider the needs of the Gaia

2145
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:40,920
Spirit right and we are kind of like a

2146
01:22:46,250 --> 01:22:43,920
colony of fleas an infestation that had

2147
01:22:49,070 --> 01:22:46,260
completely forgotten our place in the

2148
01:22:50,510 --> 01:22:49,080
Enterprise right so not only are we

2149
01:22:52,490 --> 01:22:50,520
doing that to the planet that we're on

2150
01:22:54,649 --> 01:22:52,500
now but we're getting ready to imp or

2151
01:22:57,709 --> 01:22:54,659
export that to other planets which are

2152
01:23:01,070 --> 01:22:57,719
also you know Cosmic beings of a certain

2153
01:23:03,830 --> 01:23:01,080
sort right every this is part of the

2154
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:03,840
the metaphysics I discussed a few months

2155
01:23:11,149 --> 01:23:08,400
ago that every Star and and planet and

2156
01:23:13,970 --> 01:23:11,159
you know Cosmic body you see actually

2157
01:23:16,370 --> 01:23:13,980
has a metaphysical identity to it it's

2158
01:23:18,709 --> 01:23:16,380
not just this inert dead matter that's

2159
01:23:20,689 --> 01:23:18,719
part of the you know unfortunate

2160
01:23:22,850 --> 01:23:20,699
consequence of physicalism is that it's

2161
01:23:24,290 --> 01:23:22,860
it's not medicine even calculate the

2162
01:23:26,270 --> 01:23:24,300
damage we're doing

2163
01:23:28,669 --> 01:23:26,280
but these others have to take into

2164
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:28,679
consideration the damage we've done to

2165
01:23:32,630 --> 01:23:30,239
the Earth the damage we've done to each

2166
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:32,640
other the fact that we're about to

2167
01:23:38,570 --> 01:23:35,880
export this Insanity into the rest of

2168
01:23:41,450 --> 01:23:38,580
the cosmos and they have to do some real

2169
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:41,460
soul searching there and say either we

2170
01:23:46,729 --> 01:23:43,920
need to really help these beings to

2171
01:23:49,130 --> 01:23:46,739
change the way they do things or maybe a

2172
01:23:51,229 --> 01:23:49,140
reset is necessary because they're going

2173
01:23:53,450 --> 01:23:51,239
to reiterate anyway these these souls

2174
01:23:55,070 --> 01:23:53,460
are going to move around Shuffle around

2175
01:23:56,750 --> 01:23:55,080
that will serve the best interest of

2176
01:23:59,450 --> 01:23:56,760
those individuals and the collective

2177
01:24:01,550 --> 01:23:59,460
whole right and and so what I would

2178
01:24:03,470 --> 01:24:01,560
leave people with is this notion that

2179
01:24:04,610 --> 01:24:03,480
when you really think about our

2180
01:24:06,770 --> 01:24:04,620
civilization

2181
01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:06,780
now switch to good things but all the

2182
01:24:11,930 --> 01:24:08,760
not so good things the way that and a

2183
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:11,940
powerful Elite still oppress the

2184
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:13,920
majority of the people the fact that

2185
01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:17,280
wealth is hoarded by a tiny tiny tiny

2186
01:24:20,810 --> 01:24:19,199
percentage right we we talk about and

2187
01:24:22,610 --> 01:24:20,820
joke about it becomes a meme right the

2188
01:24:24,890 --> 01:24:22,620
one percent

2189
01:24:26,510 --> 01:24:24,900
and yet this is the reality right this

2190
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:26,520
is what we want to say to the cosmos hey

2191
01:24:30,350 --> 01:24:28,260
we're good to go help help us export

2192
01:24:31,790 --> 01:24:30,360
this into some other place why would

2193
01:24:33,229 --> 01:24:31,800
they right

2194
01:24:35,090 --> 01:24:33,239
um

2195
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,100
there's just so many things about our

2196
01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:37,199
civilization at a core level

2197
01:24:40,970 --> 01:24:38,940
that I think when you really deal with

2198
01:24:44,090 --> 01:24:40,980
it and even when you've had experiences

2199
01:24:45,890 --> 01:24:44,100
with other intelligences what it does

2200
01:24:47,570 --> 01:24:45,900
for you is it gives you new insight into

2201
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:47,580
looking back at your own civilization

2202
01:24:52,490 --> 01:24:50,159
and your own species and you go man

2203
01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:52,500
that's pretty messed up like

2204
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:53,760
and it gets to the point where you

2205
01:25:01,310 --> 01:24:59,030
at what point does the well-wishing that

2206
01:25:03,890 --> 01:25:01,320
that next decade will do better or the

2207
01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:03,900
you know 20 years will do better when

2208
01:25:07,850 --> 01:25:05,400
really what we're seeing is just

2209
01:25:10,729 --> 01:25:07,860
increased technologically technological

2210
01:25:13,310 --> 01:25:10,739
capacity to do damage without a

2211
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:13,320
requisite growth in Consciousness right

2212
01:25:17,090 --> 01:25:15,420
and so we're just becoming more

2213
01:25:20,630 --> 01:25:17,100
dangerous to ourselves and everything

2214
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:20,640
else while we're also stagnating so it's

2215
01:25:24,530 --> 01:25:22,320
not even like it's a status quo we're

2216
01:25:25,970 --> 01:25:24,540
getting more dangerous while also not

2217
01:25:28,570 --> 01:25:25,980
really growing collectively at our

2218
01:25:30,770 --> 01:25:28,580
Consciousness nor really

2219
01:25:33,410 --> 01:25:30,780
fundamentally addressing the core

2220
01:25:35,930 --> 01:25:33,420
problems in our civilization that are

2221
01:25:38,450 --> 01:25:35,940
about to export this everywhere else so

2222
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:38,460
this is the scenario we're in so on the

2223
01:25:42,290 --> 01:25:40,080
one hand I want to encourage people that

2224
01:25:44,689 --> 01:25:42,300
you know you are much more than this

2225
01:25:47,450 --> 01:25:44,699
iteration you are here as a human being

2226
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:47,460
having a temporary experience as a soul

2227
01:25:52,010 --> 01:25:49,199
that goes through many many iterations

2228
01:25:54,229 --> 01:25:52,020
right so keep that all in mind and

2229
01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:54,239
really think about

2230
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:57,600
how much this is worth keeping going and

2231
01:26:01,010 --> 01:25:59,040
if nothing else I hope we would all

2232
01:26:03,709 --> 01:26:01,020
recognize that there needs to be some

2233
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:03,719
systemic changes to take place to make

2234
01:26:07,490 --> 01:26:06,239
it worth keeping going and that's why I

2235
01:26:08,689 --> 01:26:07,500
would leave people with

2236
01:26:11,870 --> 01:26:08,699
really

2237
01:26:16,850 --> 01:26:11,880
yeah and I want to say too that they're

2238
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:16,860
the iterative nature of the processes is

2239
01:26:21,890 --> 01:26:18,480
very very important as you said but

2240
01:26:23,990 --> 01:26:21,900
there are also no shortcuts uh you know

2241
01:26:25,090 --> 01:26:24,000
you can't somehow hack your way to the

2242
01:26:28,189 --> 01:26:25,100
next level

2243
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:28,199
uh you know just by you know cutting

2244
01:26:32,890 --> 01:26:30,239
short in one iteration and moving on to

2245
01:26:36,229 --> 01:26:32,900
the next one like if you're not learning

2246
01:26:38,090 --> 01:26:36,239
if growth is not happening the growth

2247
01:26:39,410 --> 01:26:38,100
still needs to take place and Will in

2248
01:26:41,090 --> 01:26:39,420
fact take place

2249
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:41,100
right

2250
01:26:44,330 --> 01:26:41,760
um

2251
01:26:46,790 --> 01:26:44,340
you know and you know I'm an optimist I

2252
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:46,800
have been most of my life and I I I'm

2253
01:26:53,629 --> 01:26:51,120
hopeful that uh we might see some real

2254
01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:53,639
uh lasting change take place I think

2255
01:27:08,090 --> 01:26:54,420
that

2256
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:08,100
Society functions and uh and

2257
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:10,380
unfortunately many of us also share the

2258
01:27:17,090 --> 01:27:13,199
same sense that of powerlessness in the

2259
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:17,100
face of that uh inequality and Injustice

2260
01:27:22,010 --> 01:27:20,400
and and Brokenness like we recognize

2261
01:27:24,110 --> 01:27:22,020
that something isn't right and in fact

2262
01:27:27,770 --> 01:27:24,120
many of us I mean how many of our

2263
01:27:31,370 --> 01:27:27,780
stories are uh that that we love to

2264
01:27:34,129 --> 01:27:31,380
watch and film and TV or whatever are

2265
01:27:36,649 --> 01:27:34,139
about you know dystopic situations that

2266
01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:36,659
upend the norm and you know reset

2267
01:27:43,129 --> 01:27:39,960
civilization and kind of addicted to

2268
01:27:45,530 --> 01:27:43,139
that because you know it points to this

2269
01:27:48,350 --> 01:27:45,540
this cancer that we have inside of our

2270
01:27:51,290 --> 01:27:48,360
of our world that we cannot seem to

2271
01:27:54,590 --> 01:27:51,300
excise that we almost want to invite a

2272
01:27:57,950 --> 01:27:54,600
catastrophe to to right this wrong that

2273
01:27:59,570 --> 01:27:57,960
that has occurred uh because we we at

2274
01:28:01,729 --> 01:27:59,580
the individual level

2275
01:28:03,770 --> 01:28:01,739
feel that we can't actually make that

2276
01:28:06,770 --> 01:28:03,780
change happen it's going to have to

2277
01:28:08,990 --> 01:28:06,780
happen on a larger scale

2278
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:09,000
um you know we we joke about it right

2279
01:28:12,890 --> 01:28:10,560
like just ended now you know because

2280
01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:12,900
it's just not it's not going well so I

2281
01:28:16,129 --> 01:28:14,340
think that there's uh there's an

2282
01:28:16,729 --> 01:28:16,139
energetic

2283
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:16,739
um

2284
01:28:21,890 --> 01:28:19,920
an intuitive uh understanding that

2285
01:28:24,110 --> 01:28:21,900
that's taking place there you know I

2286
01:28:25,149 --> 01:28:24,120
want to emphasize that too that that

2287
01:28:29,870 --> 01:28:25,159
that

2288
01:28:32,270 --> 01:28:29,880
what we have read about in religious

2289
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:32,280
tradition about things like apocalypse

2290
01:28:36,410 --> 01:28:34,440
and whatnot and you know and and the in

2291
01:28:39,229 --> 01:28:36,420
the Doomsday prophecies that we're all

2292
01:28:42,169 --> 01:28:39,239
familiar with we grew up hearing them uh

2293
01:28:45,050 --> 01:28:42,179
you know the year 2000 or 2012 whatever

2294
01:28:46,310 --> 01:28:45,060
it is all these doomsday things you know

2295
01:28:49,490 --> 01:28:46,320
we all kind of say well you know all

2296
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,500
that stuff came and went and it's not I

2297
01:28:52,970 --> 01:28:51,600
mean any different

2298
01:28:55,810 --> 01:28:52,980
perhaps

2299
01:28:58,970 --> 01:28:55,820
but the energetic

2300
01:29:02,870 --> 01:28:58,980
truth of those stories is still very

2301
01:29:05,870 --> 01:29:02,880
very real and I think there's an imprint

2302
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:05,880
in a way of the future on the present in

2303
01:29:11,149 --> 01:29:08,880
the past that that we intuitively

2304
01:29:14,090 --> 01:29:11,159
understand and tap into it's not

2305
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:14,100
something we we know at a at a cognitive

2306
01:29:17,930 --> 01:29:16,320
level that that we would go oh I learned

2307
01:29:21,290 --> 01:29:17,940
this in a classroom it's something that

2308
01:29:24,370 --> 01:29:21,300
we know on a deeper level uh that that

2309
01:29:29,090 --> 01:29:24,380
permeates kind of how we experience life

2310
01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:29,100
and and I I think we that that is very

2311
01:29:35,149 --> 01:29:33,420
real very true uh and is a sign it's

2312
01:29:37,070 --> 01:29:35,159
kind of that inner voice in a way that

2313
01:29:39,649 --> 01:29:37,080
that's saying to you like you know this

2314
01:29:42,709 --> 01:29:39,659
isn't right we need to fix this how do

2315
01:29:44,990 --> 01:29:42,719
we fix this what can be done can someone

2316
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:45,000
help us

2317
01:29:48,770 --> 01:29:47,280
right and I would leave people with this

2318
01:29:51,169 --> 01:29:48,780
thought you know often you've probably

2319
01:29:53,930 --> 01:29:51,179
come across this meme that says if you

2320
01:29:55,490 --> 01:29:53,940
knew you had one week to live no how

2321
01:29:57,770 --> 01:29:55,500
would you live differently

2322
01:29:59,330 --> 01:29:57,780
and most of us answer why we live

2323
01:30:00,590 --> 01:29:59,340
differently right that would change my

2324
01:30:03,350 --> 01:30:00,600
perspective

2325
01:30:04,790 --> 01:30:03,360
and yet we often say so why don't you

2326
01:30:07,970 --> 01:30:04,800
live that way already right in other

2327
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:07,980
words why not live with the the largest

2328
01:30:12,229 --> 01:30:10,320
perspective in mind the deepest truths

2329
01:30:15,410 --> 01:30:12,239
in mind right not getting caught up in

2330
01:30:18,350 --> 01:30:15,420
the the you know the just the

2331
01:30:19,729 --> 01:30:18,360
the mundane of the day right and I

2332
01:30:21,709 --> 01:30:19,739
understand there's challenges with that

2333
01:30:24,050 --> 01:30:21,719
but what we all in sort of encourage

2334
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:24,060
each other with those kind of sayings is

2335
01:30:29,149 --> 01:30:26,400
you know try to live with the largest

2336
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:29,159
perspective of mine try to live with the

2337
01:30:33,470 --> 01:30:31,679
greatest end in mind what would you do

2338
01:30:34,610 --> 01:30:33,480
if you could and if you had that

2339
01:30:36,050 --> 01:30:34,620
perspective

2340
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:36,060
in the same way that rather than

2341
01:30:40,370 --> 01:30:37,920
worrying about whether some sort of

2342
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:40,380
reset is in our future or not why don't

2343
01:30:44,689 --> 01:30:42,960
we live today differently right both as

2344
01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:44,699
individuals and the decisions we make

2345
01:30:48,890 --> 01:30:46,800
the things we spend our time doing we

2346
01:30:50,629 --> 01:30:48,900
relate to each other and also as a

2347
01:30:53,390 --> 01:30:50,639
collective right when each one of us

2348
01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:53,400
interacts with another one of us in a

2349
01:30:55,790 --> 01:30:54,960
grocery store at a gas station or

2350
01:30:57,890 --> 01:30:55,800
whatever

2351
01:30:59,870 --> 01:30:57,900
and our you know corporate meetings when

2352
01:31:02,689 --> 01:30:59,880
we're doing remote work or whatever

2353
01:31:04,550 --> 01:31:02,699
we have the opportunity to embody this

2354
01:31:06,169 --> 01:31:04,560
differently Nothing Stops us from doing

2355
01:31:08,390 --> 01:31:06,179
this tomorrow right we don't have to

2356
01:31:10,070 --> 01:31:08,400
wait to for an alien species to say hey

2357
01:31:10,910 --> 01:31:10,080
you all need to do something different

2358
01:31:12,590 --> 01:31:10,920
here

2359
01:31:14,930 --> 01:31:12,600
we can just do it now right Nothing

2360
01:31:16,430 --> 01:31:14,940
Stops us so in the same way that we

2361
01:31:18,169 --> 01:31:16,440
think about that in terms of how would

2362
01:31:20,689 --> 01:31:18,179
you live differently if you as an

2363
01:31:22,669 --> 01:31:20,699
individual had one week to live how and

2364
01:31:24,770 --> 01:31:22,679
we as a civilization begin to think

2365
01:31:27,770 --> 01:31:24,780
differently live differently embody

2366
01:31:29,870 --> 01:31:27,780
being a human differently if we knew

2367
01:31:32,090 --> 01:31:29,880
that the future of our civilization was

2368
01:31:33,950 --> 01:31:32,100
at stake and more importantly that we

2369
01:31:36,110 --> 01:31:33,960
LED from this perspective the great of

2370
01:31:37,850 --> 01:31:36,120
the greater Cosmic good what would we do

2371
01:31:40,430 --> 01:31:37,860
differently and if there's something we

2372
01:31:42,290 --> 01:31:40,440
would do differently why not do that now

2373
01:31:44,930 --> 01:31:42,300
yeah

2374
01:31:47,510 --> 01:31:44,940
well said

2375
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,520
well thank you for listening uh to this

2376
01:31:51,830 --> 01:31:49,440
episode It's been a

2377
01:31:54,050 --> 01:31:51,840
great conversation always enjoy it and I

2378
01:31:56,270 --> 01:31:54,060
hope that uh that folks enjoy listening

2379
01:31:58,910 --> 01:31:56,280
as well we look forward to hearing your

2380
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,920
comments and uh and also suggestions if

2381
01:32:02,390 --> 01:32:00,480
there are topics that you'd like us to

2382
01:32:03,530 --> 01:32:02,400
hit we uh we certainly love to hear what

2383
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:03,540
those are

2384
01:32:08,570 --> 01:32:04,800
um and we'll try to incorporate those

2385
01:32:13,010 --> 01:32:10,550
so we'll lead you with this may the

2386
01:32:15,470 --> 01:32:13,020
quality of our questions shaped by a

2387
01:32:18,110 --> 01:32:15,480
desire for understanding enhance our

2388
01:32:20,229 --> 01:32:18,120
journey of Discovery and may our travels

2389
01:32:22,729 --> 01:32:20,239
broaden the sphere of our Consciousness

2390
01:32:26,990 --> 01:32:22,739
reminding us that new discoveries begin

2391
01:32:29,390 --> 01:32:27,000
New Horizons as always Adventure awaits

2392
01:32:33,460 --> 01:32:29,400
we'll see you next time on liminal

2393
01:32:37,260 --> 01:32:35,590
[Music]

2394
01:32:43,540 --> 01:32:37,270
[Laughter]